Open Carry => 911 Call (Virginia)

[aaaaa]

I have a good friend from college years who thinks no one should carry, because as a teenage girl her father told her she should not carry because the bad guy would take it from her and use it against her. She has internalized that to every bad guy will disarm every good guy, so good guys should not carry. I told her she does not have to carry, but that she should not prevent me from doing so.
With that as the backstory, I would be much more comfortable with open carry in the general population if folks would use proper retention holsters, preferably level 2 or higher. However, it seems to me many open carry for the "look" and as a result select really fine looking display holsters, often highly tooled and decorated leather. I admit, a fine leather holster as seen in old FBI movies or westerns looks great, but such minimal retention devices seem ripe for my friend's father being right in his warning.

If they only want to show off a cool-looking gun, maybe they should carry it unloaded so they don't get in too much trouble.

As for gun retention, pocket carry in the front pocket seems the most secure, though slower to draw.

The proper mental attitude is just as important as the gun, when carrying. Are you prepared to take a human life, when the time comes? And you have to do so without hesitation. Women -- and most men, actually -- are conditioned in our society not to have that mindset. All the training in the world won't overcome that conditioning.

And so I have heard, the perps can sometimes tell if a potential victim is not willing to pull the trigger.

If you look at the election map for the past Governor's race, the 3 blue cities in the upper right corner are running the entire state. The other blue blue areas aren't in Richmond, Norfolk, and Roanoke areas do not account for many votes in comparison.

I heard that there are no blue states, only blue cities, and if those blue cities are very big they can pollute the entire state.

 

[AlexanderA]

Which would be completely unconstitutional.

Why would a ban on open carry be unconstitutional? The Supreme Court has ruled that a ban on all carry is unconstitutional. The way I read the Bruen decision, a scheme that only allows licensed concealed carry would pass muster (provided the licenses are issued on an objective basis).

 

[Frulk]

How one looks and what they carry matters. ‘Most’ people I see open carry around here seem to be younger. 25-35? At least that’s the impression I get. Almost exclusively black semi autos in various styles of kydex holsters and occasionally the added magazine(or two). Predominantly I’m less than impressed with the general appearance of this particular category of open carriers.

I frequent a local coffee shop on weekends. I’m betting it’s clientele is relatively liberal. One customer that comes in around the time I’m there is a man in his late 50’s to maybe mid 60’s. Kinda fit looking. Clean cut grey hair and always in white soled chukka boots. Wears his shirts tucked in and always has a plain leather thumb break holster with a stainless SW revolver in it.

Have never spoken to him but the shop owner does all the time. That I can tell none of the clientele in there with kids appear to be too worried as I’m betting they would tell the owner. I’m not so sure the first group I mentioned would get that passive reaction if they decided to become regulars.

I don’t open carry in town but if I did I wouldn’t look like I just came from a heavy metal concert.

 

[Rule3]

Open carry is generally prohibited in Fl. I have no desire to open carry in Fl. "on purpose", but I am in a similar situation, because I ride a motorcycle. It would be nice to wear it on my belt and not worry about the wind blowing my clothing up, exposing my gun, and putting me in a situation I don't care to be in.

It's not a violation

https://m.flsenate.gov/statutes/790.053

SECTION 053Open carrying of weapons.

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 1, ch. 87-537; s. 173, ch. 91-224; s. 3, ch. 97-72; s. 1205, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2006-298; s. 1, ch. 2011-145.

 

[FL-NC]

It's not a violation

https://m.flsenate.gov/statutes/790.053

SECTION 053Open carrying of weapons.

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 1, ch. 87-537; s. 173, ch. 91-224; s. 3, ch. 97-72; s. 1205, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2006-298; s. 1, ch. 2011-145.

Believe me, I know that law and also the exemptions in Fl. as it applies to hunting, fishing, and camping. In the law you cited, it all depends on who is defining "brief". 1 second? 10 seconds? 1 minute? 1 mile of travel down the interstate at 65 mph? What is "reasonable" who defines that? On a motorcycle, it would be very easy for this to happen without the knowledge of the rider, and even if the rider were aware of such a "brief" open and likely unintentional display, it may not be practical or safe for the rider to correct the "clothing malfunction" at that time. For me personally, legal OC in Fl. would give me one less thing in life to worry about.

 

[jmorris]

I want to keep open carry legal in Virginia. By open carrying in northern Virginia (not a gun-friendly place, BTW), you stir up the natives and bring the day closer when open carry is outlawed.

Or the day when seeing a firearm is normal and not a cause of alarm.

FWIW I am pro right to but I think it is also a bad idea in public.

I think some natives need to be stirred up. It’s this over the top sensitivity that gets us things like a 5 year old expelled from school because he or she points their finger with their thumb raised…

Maybe if the other side made accommodations for my feelings (actions legal or not) I might feel differently but that’s not the case.

 

[herrwalther]

I like the option of open carry. The choice to open carry on a hike or not being slapped with a brandishing charge because my cover garment rode up is ideal. From a tactical standpoint, I don't prefer it. Especially when in uniform.

 

[Howland937]

Believe me, I know that law and also the exemptions in Fl. as it applies to hunting, fishing, and camping. In the law you cited, it all depends on who is defining "brief". 1 second? 10 seconds? 1 minute? 1 mile of travel down the interstate at 65 mph? What is "reasonable" who defines that? On a motorcycle, it would be very easy for this to happen without the knowledge of the rider, and even if the rider were aware of such a "brief" open and likely unintentional display, it may not be practical or safe for the rider to correct the "clothing malfunction" at that time. For me personally, legal OC in Fl. would give me one less thing in life to worry about.

Just ride faster so if anyone does see anything, it will be very briefly. In fact, they'd probably never even notice the gun when they call to report "Florida Man on Motorcycle..."

 

[Insignificant bill]

I open carry when I feel like it.

 

[CDW4ME]

I lived in KY for 54 years where open carry was legal; I always conceal carry there too.
If I see somebody open carry it was usually at Wal-Mart, not a sit down restaurant, not church.
"Open carry when I feel like it" = Wal-Mart (strangers), but maybe not relatives house, family reunions, "nice" restaurants, - exercise rights (comfort) situationally.
In before "why do I care" - didn't say I did.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I always thought of open carry as something that ought to be legal basically everywhere but practiced basically nowhere, if that makes sense.

 

[KahrDriving]

VCDL just posted on YouTube a recent 911 call in Loudon County about a motorcyclist open carrying a US Flag decorated gun. Just under 4 minutes long.
The VCDL comments on the video are valuable:

Patriotic motorcyclist on memorial day gets a 911 call on him while wearing a red white & blue gun. many people ask why doesn't the dispatcher just tell the collar that open carry is legal? the answer is because most law enforcement agencies we'll dispatch for any call and have everything checked out themselves no matter what the caller said on the phone. this is for liability reasons. also in most cases the call taker is not law enforcement.​

Yes, Virginia is still an open carry legal state. Once more have an incident where open carry, while legal, can also be scary to part of the population. I used to live in the Virginia DC suburbs; most aware gun owners knew not to open carry in Arlington County due to that population's ignorance. We did have one case where an open carrier (another motor cycle rider) had 911 called saying he had tried to rob a 7-11 store just because of the visible gun.
Open carry may be legal, but sometimes it is not wise.

Had my CCW for many years, but never advertise it to the public. I never want anyone to know that I’m carrying, even told my wife to never tell anyone that I’m carrying, even in a bad situation. I’m not a cop, I carry for life threatening situations, hope I never have to use it.

 

[The Night Rider]

Do we need our own badge

No.

 

[RealGun]

No.

You didn't quote the rest that provided context.

 

[aaaaa]

Had my CCW for many years, but never advertise it to the public. I never want anyone to know that I’m carrying, even told my wife to never tell anyone that I’m carrying, even in a bad situation. I’m not a cop, I carry for life threatening situations, hope I never have to use it.

This makes a lot of sense and if how I feel about it.

 

[Craig_AR]

You didn't quote the rest

Night Rider gave the correct answer for any and all contexts for the question "do we need our own badge?"
as for

How is it different for police, uniformed or otherwise? Public perception maybe?

The difference is that police officers( and licensed armed security guards) as commissioned officers are under a different set of laws with regard to authority, responsibility, and use of lethal force. CCW holders have no where near the same legal situation as commissioned armed officers. Repeating my earlier comment, a civilian CCW holder who displays a badge at any incident is highly likely to be charged with the crime of impersonating a police officer.
The issue has nothing to do with public perception; it is a legal issue.

 

[The Night Rider]

The difference is that police officers( and licensed armed security guards) as commissioned officers.

I have to make one correction here, unless it's an off-duty cop working a side gig a security guard is not a commissioned officer in any jurisdiction that I am aware of.

 

[The Night Rider]

You didn't quote the rest that provided context.

I didn't need to quote the rest. There is no context in which is appropriate for a concealed handgun permit holder to be wearing any kind of a badge identifying him/her as such.

 

[RealGun]

Night Rider gave the correct answer for any and all contexts for the question "do we need our own badge?"
as for


The difference is that police officers( and licensed armed security guards) as commissioned officers are under a different set of laws with regard to authority, responsibility, and use of lethal force. CCW holders have no where near the same legal situation as commissioned armed officers. Repeating my earlier comment, a civilian CCW holder who displays a badge at any incident is highly likely to be charged with the crime of impersonating a police officer.
The issue has nothing to do with public perception; it is a legal issue.

Also out of context. I was referring to a legitimate badge in the future.

 

[RealGun]

I didn't need to quote the rest. There is no context in which is appropriate for a concealed handgun permit holder to be wearing any kind of a badge identifying him/her as such.

Yes there is, but minds are closed it seems.

 

[Craig_AR]

I was referring to a legitimate badge in the future.

AH, that is a whole new approach, which neither Night Rider nor I came close to assuming from your initial query: the idea of government-issued "legitimate badges." That is why neither of us responded to that idea. Now that you have raised this possibility, I have a new reply.
I would support government-issued CCW badges only if they required significant training equivalent to current auxiliary police officers on legal aspects of use of force along with use of force skills, combined with legal status recognizing such badged CCW holders as having actual arrest authority (not simple "citizens arrest"). "Badged CCW" would have to be social and legally recognized as members of the LE community.
At the same time, I would want to see universal Constitutional / Permitless carry such that the general populationlation still has full carry option, trained or not.

 

[The Night Rider]

Yes there is, but minds are closed it seems.

You do you Boo

 

[Insignificant bill]

Badges is a dumb idea. We don't need any stinking badges

 

[Rexster]

I have little doubt that my openly carrying a firearm, anywhere in Texas’ greater Houston area, would result in calls to 911. So, I usually conceal. I am an introvert, and would rather not have to involuntarily interact with LE, or Central Park Karens, or anyone outside of my relatively small social circle.

The last time I open-carried, in my neighborhood, I first donned my plate carrier, with its “POLICE” lettering, front and back, and used my PD-issued radio to switch to the local PD’s frequency, to advise the dispatcher why I was carrying.

 

[Bighorserider]

The problem with open carry is that there are multiple shootings a day. There is no way for the public to know who is the shooter and who is the good guy with a guy. Being afraid of someone open carrying isn't anti-gun. It's smart.