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Open carry ...at the Post Office?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by radshooter, Mar 30, 2012.

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  1. radshooter

    radshooter Member

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    While standing in line today to pick up some packages and I noticed the guy in front of me was open carrying a Glock in a Serpa-style holster. He was not in any kind of uniform. If he was some form of LEO, he was either off duty or under cover.

    Have I been misinformed about the law regarding guns in federal buildings? Aren't all Post Offices considered Federal buildings?

    There are no gun-buster signs anywhere in the Post Office that I can find, and I have been going there for 4 years now. I always remove my cc pistol from the holster and leave it in the car while I go in the building.

    Am I wrong? Can you carry into a federal building if there are no signs????

    Thanks.
     
  2. Hunterdad

    Hunterdad Member

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    I'm sure he was an LEO of somesort.
     
  3. Sgt_R

    Sgt_R Member

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    Or just really stupid.
     
  4. Lee D

    Lee D Member

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    yep, LE or real stupid
     
  5. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

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    It is a federal building and is not legal to carry.
     
  6. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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  7. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Or neither; he may have been on duty / plain clothes.
    If you're parking on PO property, you may as well just carry it inside because that's just as illegal.
     
  8. Buck Kramer

    Buck Kramer Member

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    Its not even legal on the property. CoRoMo beat me to it.
     
  9. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Yes, really.

    The author of your article is wrong. He says, "The statute in questions is 18 U.S.C. 930 – Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal Facilities.", which is incorrect. The statute in question is not the one he cites. He should have reviewed this one...
     
  10. mdauben

    mdauben Member

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    Actually, my understanding is that postal buildings fall under somewhat different rules than other federal properites. For one thing if the same rules applied, it would be illegal to carry a packaged firearm into the post office to mail it.

    On the other hand, AFAIK its still illegal to "carry" a loaded weapon into a post office.
     
  11. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    Only handgun you can bring into Post Office is one packaged for mailing with the correct form and you are an FFL
     
  12. Lee D

    Lee D Member

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    "Only handgun you can bring into Post Office is one packaged for mailing with the correct form and you are an FFL"


    thats what i was taught years ago in my CC class
     
  13. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Or maybe both? :D


    Also, 18 USC 930, the prohibition of firearms in Federal facilities requires prominent posting at all entrances to the facility in order to be prosecuted. 39 CFR 232.1, the prohibition of firearms on post office property only requires signs to be posted somewhere on the property - and contains no consequences for a lack of the sign.
     
  14. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    If he is an undercover LEO, I think he might be a little unclear on the concept. :D
     
  15. AlaskaMan

    AlaskaMan Member

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    Or maybe he was just a concealed weapons permit holder who thought he was above the law?:D

    Law enforcement officers are selected from the community. They are no more "stupid" than anyone else.

    NavyLCDR... maybe he was in the military, then are we allowed to say he was real stupid or both?:D

    Putting a smiley face at the end of such a remark does not keep it "high road".
     
  16. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    That was my thought......
     
  17. XxBulletBendeRXx

    XxBulletBendeRXx Member

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    The Smleys are there as an option to use. :) As many say, especially on this site, Use it or lose it.... :) That is all.. carry on... :neener:
     
  18. writerinmo

    writerinmo Member

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    There is at least once lawsuit making it's way through the courts on the Post Office restrictions as we speak from what I see. It contends that the phrase "Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation," would exempt any person who was legally carrying a firearm, such as a LEO or a person with a concealed carry permit. We'll have to see how that plays out, since as someone noted, the Post Office does not post signage restricting it, and it falls somewhat outside the Federal building rule. The parking lot rule also only applies if it's not a shared parking lot with any other business, mine has a shop next door that is owned by a local FFL who builds AR's there for resale.
     
  19. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Member

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    To put all of that mail in jeopardy? What a jerk!
     
  20. radshooter

    radshooter Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I don't think I will be testing the waters any time soon.
     
  21. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    writerinmo, our actual Post office does indeed post a sign. The contract PO does not, and it is both privately owned and staffed. It ain't fed.gov property, which makes it a better place to do business for me. :) I understand many more POs may be closing and going to fewer contract POs. Service will suffer slightly.
     
  22. Tinpig

    Tinpig Member

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    CoRoMo-

    You quote CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) 232.1 to contradict 18 USC (United Stares Code) 930 (and buck460XVR).

    However, CFR 232.1 also states:
    From the Massachusetts Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law, used to train police officers in Massachusetts and at the State Police Academy:

    I lawfully carry concealed in Post Offices in Massachusetts based on this.
    Other states may have more restrictive state or local laws.

    Tinpig
     
  23. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Interesting...
     
  24. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Marines raising the left-leaning Pisa tower.

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    Tinpig quoted from the Massachussetts police training document:

    I'm not familiar with what a Class A License to Carry is. May I assume that's relevant only to Massachusetts, or does it refer to some federal class of license?

    In any case, I have a Post Office Box in the lobby of my PO, which is open 24 hours a day. For years, I avoided carrying in there with my permit even if the main service counter was closed because there was a sign near the door as follows:

    I later found what these exceptions were in that "subsection (d)" remark which I put in bold above:

    I then began to carry concealed in the Post office, considering that "other lawful purposes" included self-defense.

    At some point along there, amidst several long discussions on several different respected gun boards regarding carry in Post offices, it appeared that another law or regulation had been written (or at least pointed out) which, despite subsection (d) made it illegal anyhow.

    So I quit carrying into the Post Office at all, or even parking in their lot to get to my POB on the theory that so many actual attorneys on the gun boards could not come to a consensus on whether it was legal or not, and I did not want to be the test case.

    However, of late, I noticed that all signs regarding weapons were removed from my post office. (I do not know if this is in reaction to the Avon Post Office case here in Colorado --see below.)

    So now I read in this thread that the signs have to be posted for the law to be effective, and I interpret Tinpig's remarks to mean that carry in Post Offices is legal because the Regulations cannot trump the Law.

    Personally, it looks to me like since there always seems to be continuing debate about the issue that the laws and regulations, taken together are vague or confusing enough to be totally unenforceable on the face of it.

    So should I stay on the safe side of the debate and continue to disarm before entering Post Office property or not? Will Lassie get Jimmy out of the well? Will Aunt Jane come to realize that her husband is actually her brother?

    Terry, 230RN

    REF (The Avon Case. My latest info is as of Nov 2011):

    http://www.mountainstateslegal.org/legal_cases.cfm?legalcaseid=231

    NOTE 1: Although the original question was with respect to Open Carry, I believe this long-standing question on Concealed Carry in Post Offices is equally relevant.

    NOTE 2: My general detached view of all this is that Post Office officials generally don't want you to carry in their facilities, but there really isn't much they can do about it except huff and puff and make it sound like you can't. <This is not legal advice, only my own rather acid comment on it all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  25. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    ....and does Timmy ever figure out that Lassie is really a Laddie?:scrutiny:

    I asked two friends that are lieutenants in the local PD about carrying into a Post Office. I got two different replies. Guess we're not the only ones confused.
     
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