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Open carry harrassment and screwball LEO logic...

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by siglite, Aug 8, 2008.

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  1. siglite

    siglite Member

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    So, my brother sends me a text: "JUST GOT HARRASSED BY YOUNGSTOWN COPS"
    I send back: "What about?"
    response: "OPEN CARRY"
    Me: "Where were you?"
    Response: "ON MY PORCH"
    I send: "dude, call me with details."

    And this is what he relays to me, giggling the whole time. Stuff in parentheses is my commentary.

    Good lord. I mean, my brother thought the whole thing was funny. He was laughing the whole time he was relaying this to me. We were both quite incredulous. Sheesh. So... I guess this is a warning to folks in Youngstown, OH, popo wants to be the only ones open carrying.
     
  2. Marcus84

    Marcus84 Member

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    So if your brother doesn't have carry permit and he conceals it because they told him to (hypothetically) couldn't they arrest him for concealment without a permit? Or is that entrapment?
     
  3. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    That WAS a rhetorical question ... right? I mean, if two officers who initiated the "contact" because they saw the gun and then chose to make an issue of the fact he didn't inform them he had a gun ...
     
  4. Brass Rain

    Brass Rain Member

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    Inform them he had a gun? Somehow I don't think it would be very smart to run up to the local coppers to say, "Hey! I have a gun!"

    In all seriousness, though, it's guys like that who make LEOs look bad.
     
  5. siglite

    siglite Member

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    Hahah.

    I actually had that happen to me here in WV years ago. I was OC, and an officer told me to cover it with my shirt. "Wouldn't that be illegal?"

    "Oh, yeah, I guess it would. Just take it to your car."

    "I'm on my way home anyway."

    "How far is your car? I'll walk with you."

    :rolleyes:
     
  6. Flyerman

    Flyerman Member

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    this saddens me very greatly. i was born and raised in Youngstwon, Ohio, and i knew some cops there, graduated with a few guys who went on to become cops, and all the ones i knew were actual real human beings, with old fashioned good sense (notice i don't say common sense). i guess everywhere you go, you run into officers of the law who don't know what the law is. hopefully, the good ones far outweigh the bad ones. and by bad ones, i mean idiotic political robots.

    sorry, but i just don't like hearing bad stuff about my hometown. no offense intended or taken by the OP.
     
  7. siglite

    siglite Member

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    Flyerman, I don't think this type of crap is anywhere NEAR unique to your home town. This is just an anecdotal instance that happened to occur there. It could've happened damn near anywhere in today's law enforcement climate.
     
  8. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    Wow. I would not have been made to seem so stupid. It's not my job to inform the police of the law, but it is my job to know and protect my rights.
     
  9. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    Sort of funny. Just reminds me that if a cop gestures you over like that, to stay on your property and make them come to you.

    After all, you can always order trespassers away.
     
  10. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO Member

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  11. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Are you referring to Youngstown West Virginia?

    Does West Virginia have any law requiring notification of police of openly-carried firearms?
     
  12. highorder

    highorder Member

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    Does anyplace require you to inform when openly carrying?
     
  13. gallo

    gallo Member

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    The cop does have a point. If someone calls 911 to report an armed man strolling through the streets, the police has to react with equal force. Maybe it's a matter of principle, but I have never understood the rational for open carry. Why would anyone want to give away the element of surprise?
     
  14. Richbaker

    Richbaker Member

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    Maybe because they don't have a CCW permit and OC is legal.....that's why I do it!
     
  15. siglite

    siglite Member

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    Ohio.

    Nope. But Ohio has a requirement for concealed carry. But open carry?
     
  16. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    Why would anyone worship publicly in a church instead of concealing their faith in the closet of their home?

    Same answer to both questions, because some people are free. Only cowering serfs are afraid to show their arms.
     
  17. Aran

    Aran member

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    There's one of these guys for every thread, isn't there?
     
  18. gallo

    gallo Member

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    Relax guys! I just threw the comment out there to spice things up a bit. I can't OC in TX, but even if it was legal, I'd prefer CC for the element of surprise. OC does not make a man more free.
     
  19. goon

    goon Member

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    gallo - OC doesn't make a man more free, I guess I can't argue that.
    But does filling out an application and submitting it to the state with whatever fee they require and hoping that they'll deem you an acceptable candidate for a CCW permit make you any more free?
    How about any less free?

    As for the element of surprise, surprise who?
    The element of surprise will pretty much always be on the criminal's side. He's the predator. He'll be the one who chooses when and where an attack occurs. That's why crime works, because the victim is suprised.
    From my admittedly un-tactical point of view, carrying a concealed handgun isn't going to do anything whatsoever to change that. About all it can do is give you half a chance to get yourself out alive if you are attacked.
    But think about it. Some creep sticks a Glock in your face and demands your wallet. He will have the upper hand. No matter how quick your draw is, the odds are very good that even if you're carrying, he'll still be able to make a canoe out of your head before you can even reach your gun. Granted, most of us do try to be more aware of our surroundings, but no one is going to be on guard all the time. It just isn't going to happen. If it were possible, none of us would need to carry because we'd all be able to see trouble coming and avoid it. And that brings us back to why crime works - because we're not constantly expecting to be victimized.
    OC, on the other hand, does make sense as a deterrent. If I were some creep, I wouldn't try any crap with the man who had a 7.5 inch Colt Single Action Army strapped to his hip. I think my instincts for self preservation would take over and steer me toward an easier target.

    Last, a cop needs more justification to show up with his weapon drawn than just a vague report of a man with a gun. For all the more they know, it could be an off duty cop whose shirt rode up over the handle of his handgun (or a legally armed citizen). A report of someone carrying a handgun is not a blank check for the police to show up and just go to work shooting anyone who looks like they might maybe be dangerous.
    Especially if openly carrying a handgun is totally legal in your state.
    IMO, if that's the case, the police would have more justification to shoot you for jaywalking than they would for OC.
    And we all know how it would go down if a cop just hauled off and popped a teenager for jaywalking...
    Seems to me that if there is a problem here, it is with the attitudes/knowledge of the police and NOT with the guy who's doing something completely legal on his own property.

    Understand, I'm not attacking your methods of trying to protect yourself. If CCW works best for you, more power to you. It actually works well enough for me too (I only OC when I'm in the woods).
    But for the people who choose to openly carry a handgun, I say why not? If that's the way they choose to protect themselves and their loved ones, more power to them.
     
  20. makarovnik

    makarovnik Member

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    If I didn't have a CPL I would have told him to come to me because I don't want to open carry off of my property. If I did have my CPL I guess I would have covered it and gone over to talk to him.

    I understand the LEO's dilemma but does he understand yours? I think it was an attempt at entrapment. I'm also thinking they knew you had a CPL before arriving. Homey don't play that game.

    Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get me.
     
  21. KC0QGL

    KC0QGL Member

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    I had someone call the cops on me at Walmart while I was OCing. When my wife and I got to our car we had 9 cops confront us. They put me in cuffs, cheched my DL and the gun. One cop said "It's only a .22" At the same time my wife and I chimed in "It's a .25 auto." This was the same cop who was checking the gun. One cop asked me why I was carrieing. "I have the right." Is all I told them. 1 week later I got my CCW.
     
  22. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Because they believe their god instructs them to worship/serve in that manner. Not the same thing at all. My gun and the constitution serve me, not the other way around. While I support the second amendment, neither the constitution nor my beliefs enjoin me to take every possible chance to tell people what I believe or try to win others over to my interpretation of those documents.

    Furthermore, in any religion there is a stigma associated with hiding one's beliefs while there is a clear advantage to not indiscriminately advertising that one owns guns. I'm active in the arena of gun rights in various ways, but I'm not particularly interested in having the teenagers in my neighborhood know that I own firearms.

    The framers of the second amendment didn't write it so that we'd be indebted to preach the constitution everywhere we go, nor did they write it so that we'd be obligated to continually and publicly exercise our rights for fear of losing them. Rather it was written so that we would be guaranteed our pre-existing right to have the means to effectively protect ourselves from crime and tyranny. It's there for us, not the other way around.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2008
  23. Majic

    Majic Member

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    Well your brother is better than me I guess. If I'm on my porch and a LEO who is down the street wants to talk to me then he can come to me. He can motion all he wants and I will do the same.
     
  24. chipperi

    chipperi Member

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    Hell that cop would get a kick out of me cleaning an AR-15 out on the deck because my wife doesn't like the solvent smell.

    I have a HCP in TN, it is perfectly legal to OC here but I am not out to stir up trouble so I always CC. I don't want to give the antis anything to whine about. IMHO it is better to keep it covered. However if you are on your own property that cop can kiss my redneck rear end it is perfectly legal to carry with or without a permit on your own property.
     
  25. tallpaul

    tallpaul Member

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    "causing a public disturbance" is a common charge when OC in quite a few ohio cities... some even have separate ordinances against. I have been told by several LE in ohio that while OC is legal they will charge you with something in most cases for oc in most populated areas.

    they don't like it...

    I also used to "run up and tell" as the law states at first when I got my ccw and 9 out of ten times LE looked at me like I was an idiot.... I said I have to legally notify you.

    I have got to the point that if they do not engage me or contact me and I do not need to engage or contact them I say nothing. I will not walk across the room just because they are there to tell them.

    I guess your brother can just be glad he's not the mayor of a city and someone did not deliver contraband to his house on top of his oc....
     
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