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Open Carry/ LEO perspective

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by franconialocal, Jun 16, 2010.

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  1. franconialocal

    franconialocal Member

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    This article has got me a little concerned. It's about a California LEO (Chief) and his thoughts/concerns about open carry. Sentence No. 3 states that open carry is the practice of carrying unloaded (ok, this may or may not be depending on the individual), but I think this Chief is a little mis-informed. Thoughts?? Maybe the thinking on this topic is just the California mindset v. NH?? LET'S KEEP THIS POST RESPECTFUL AND PROFESSIONAL IN NATURE SO IT DOESN'T GET LOCKED plz.......

    http://www.apbweb.com/news/9-opinion-editorial/1609-open-carry-a-threat-to-officers.html

    I am a LEO and definately in a different camp of thought from this Chief. All due respect to your position and rank sir....this is just not the case here in NH. Most of my interactions with the open carry folks in the state (including myself!!) have been respectful and cordial. Frankly, the gun I CANT see is the one I'm more concerned with. I've seen other posts about this topic as well, but I wanted to point out this specific article.
     
  2. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    he is a Police chief in CA, writing on behalf of the California Police Chiefs Association for a CA audience.

    in CA, Open Cary is always unloaded, otherwise it would be a violation of Penal Code Sect. 12031. this is done without a permit, but you are allowed to carry a loaded mag.

    a CCW permit is for concealed and loaded carry of a concealable firearm

    i'm not advocating a position on Open Carry, just defining the reference of his position
     
  3. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    Yesterday I saw some guy open carrying in my neighborhood. Surprised me and brought a smile to my face. Only downside that it was just a Glock.
     
  4. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    If Chief James is very concerned about unloaded open carry, I suppose he would have a conniption over concealed carry. Nevertheless, law enforcement officers seem to muddle through in the free states that allow concealed carry.
     
  5. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    If the thugs in California who trade CCW credentials for political favors and money don't like unloaded open carry, let them start issuing concealed carry credentials to any non-criminal citizen, instead of just to their corrupt friends and business associates.

    I'm sure they'd treat voter registration cards and driver's licenses as favors to be bought and sold if they could.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  6. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    Guess we ought to differentiate between LEOs and the Chief of Police?

    Most LEOs I know think you're crazy if you're not armed and willing to defend yourself. Police chiefs, being the pragmatic animals they are, often have a completely different view than those under him.
    After all, the chief has to answer to his masters (city council, mayor, etc) and usually sees which way their wind blows before he takes a stance.

    Hadn't really thought about it, but once heard a discussion 'bout various top LE positions. Someone stated you’d probably find more sheriffs who think in line with the folks they serve than any other top LEO. The reason given was sheriffs are the only top LEOs that are elected (they answer to their constituents)-all other top LEOs are appointed, etc and only answer to their bosses, often not caring what "the people" think.
     
  7. Manco

    Manco Member

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    All I can say is that I don't understand his position. Is he trying to say that he'd feel safer if he simply didn't know whether anybody was armed? I mean, my point of view is that anybody could be carrying concealed at any time, whether legally or illegally, so open carry makes no difference to me. It's simply the truth of the matter, and I think that those who are opposed to actually being able to see firearms being carried are perhaps unknowingly trying to enable themselves to be in denial of the truth that if somebody wanted to kill you, they could do so any moment, whether it's with a scary-looking firearm or, say, an innocuous-looking shovel they just carried out of the local hardware store.

    Denial is never a good thing because while it makes some people feel safer, it actually puts them in greater danger due to their lack of awareness and vigilance, and in this case it stomps on our right to defend ourselves, putting us in greater danger, too. :fire: I guess like so many of the people he is supposed to protect and serve, this particular police chief is afraid of guns.
     
  8. RETG

    RETG Member

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    Came across a guy open carrying today in front of me, in a Maverik station. No one appeared to pay any attention; then again, I was not wearing a jacket either. I saw it and didn't think that much about it, until he turned around and I noticed he had a concealed weapons badge in front of the holster on the belt. He looked at me, noticed my handgun, but also noticed my badge did not look like his badge and I swear the guy blushed and stopped for a second or two. I believe he was waiting for me to say something.

    Why do people wear those idiotic badges?
     
  9. Blue Brick

    Blue Brick Member

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    I only open carry, but I live in Arizona.
     
  10. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    I assume you are a LEO. You are accustomed to people seeing your gun and badge and not reacting adversely. The average citizen seems to have a vague sense that gun + badge = LEO = no cause for alarm. Even a concealed carry badge probably prompts the same response as a real LEO badge since most citizens don't closely inspect badges for authenticity.
     
  11. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Just a wild guess here.... maybe..... because they are idiots?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. The Expert

    The Expert Member

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    Most people respect the badge. Everybody respects the gun … Robert DiNiro
     
  13. 762NATO

    762NATO Member

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    I've never seen anyone "wearing" a CC permit ("badge" or whatever it is they have in your state), but if they do, I assume it is because they do not feel truly free to exercise their freedoms. They want to practice their right to carry but they also feel like they need to legitimize it to others. As for him blushing at your badge, he probably feels that cops really don't approve of ordinary citizens carrying guns. After all, that's the message he's been sent all his life by the TV.
     
  14. gunnutery

    gunnutery Member

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    His statement here is quite flawed. IMO if there are laws regulating something (like how guns are to be carried), an officer has all authority to check into its lawful use or ask for a valid permit (if applicable). When I see kids walking down the street smoking, I can stop them to ascertain whether they are legally old enough to do so.
     
  15. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Most states only prohibit the purchase, not the possession or usage, of tobacco products by minors.
     
  16. gunnutery

    gunnutery Member

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    Iowa prohibits the use and possession of tobacco products by minors.
     
  17. DRZinn

    DRZinn Member

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    In a pot of water, 200 degrees and rising slowly..
    The police officer who approaches any individual must assess the subject's behavior without knowing if the individual has a concealed weapon. So what?
     
  18. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    And the answer to that is to deregulate the carry of guns like Vermont, Alaska and Arizona! Then we won't be wasting police officers time' with all this permit crap! I am glad there is no permit required to open carry in Washington. An officer sees me walking down the street with a handgun in a holster they have NO lawful authority to check into anything regarding my gun. And I am also glad the Washington State supreme court has ruled as such, as well. (State v. Casad).
     
  19. indykappa

    indykappa Member

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    yeah, this line bothered me as well...if someone in THIS country is walking around with a gun, the odds are that they have a RIGHT to do so. the vast majority of folks are not felons, nor mentally unstable. therefore, by way of the 2nd Amendment, they would have the RIGHT to possess a firearm.

    of course, i'm preaching to the choir here.

    i am sure that california is a beautiful place. i would love to visit there sometime. but i get alot of california amenities (mountains, oceans/beaches) here in north carolina, combined with a lower crime rate and cost of living.
     
  20. eye5600

    eye5600 Member

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    My thought precisely.

    A lot of cops and just about every COP seems to think it's all about them and the excuse is "it's dangerous out there." Hey, guys, we're out there too.

    To be fair, cops spend a lot of time in neighborhoods where they are seen as a hostile force, especially in urban areas. That ramps up the gain on their antennas a lot. If you're in drug county, and you see a gun, you best pay attention. But, you know, that's their problem, and I don't see that they should make it my problem.
     
  21. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    If someone ACTS like a "hostile force", they really shouldn't be surprised that they're perceived and treated like a hostile force.

    Why on earth would the residents of Berwyn Heights, MD view the cops who raided their mayor's home, shot his dogs, and made the family lie in the blood of the dead and dying dogs as anything BUT a "hostile force"? Neither the mayor nor anyone in his family committed a crime and have not been charged with one. The cops who raided the home were COMMENDED for their actions. To the best of my knowledge, they've never even admitted fault, much less apologized.
     
  22. Jefferson Herb

    Jefferson Herb Member

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    Kali open carry

    You will find a lot of beautiful country on the coast from mendicino county north to the Canadian Border.
    I had someone talk of a sheriff in Wyoming,who Answered to voters,Governor and God.As it was told,He told the Feds that any operations in his county would go thru him.Is there anyone who can elaborate?
    It was supposed to go back to old times in England,ie the High Sheriff,who is the top LEO in the county.
    Back to topic,open carry unloaded is like carrying a pocket full of quarters,weighing you down when folding money is just as good;unless it's in a good heavy sock.
     
  23. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    I'd be more worried about some guy wearing baggy pants halfway down his rear-end and tattoo'ed with gang signs than a open carrier.
     
  24. Gouranga

    Gouranga Member

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    Seems to me, at least with open carry an officer KNOWS the guy is armed and KNOWS when he is reaching for his weapon. Anyone else, they could be reaching for their cell phone on their belt, or it could be a 45 tucked in the belt, who knows.

    Personally, if the cop is in such a neighborhood that he/she has to watch each and every bystander to see if they intend to shoot them, I would think they would understand WHY the law abiding citizens would want to carry concealed weapons then. Heck if the cop don't feel safe, why should we?
     
  25. NMGonzo

    NMGonzo Member

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    Glock better than a rock.

    It's what I see the most here in my town.
     
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