Open Carry or concealed.... Tell me...

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golden said:
I live in Florida and am a uniformed LEO. I carry my gun to work, at work and on my way home openly. The catch is that my gun rests in a security holster. That makes a HUGE difference to me. When I was a teenager, every year 1 out of 3 Florida cops were killed with their own gun. That stat has gone down for Law Enforcement across the board because of a combination of training and most importantly (in my opinion) the use of secure holsters. You can try a gun grab, but it is awkward if you have to unlock the holster and time consuming which gives the officer a chance to stop you.
During a training session, before my agency went to a secure holster, I had a trainer get my gun away from me. It was a bit of a shock, but afterwards, I understood just how vulnerable I (and every open gun carrier is).
One of my co-workers had someone get his gun out a a breakfront holster, back when revolvers were still the standard issue. He was saved by the other officers immediately jumping on the bad guy and putting a gun to his head.

Even if you get knocked down, the assailant will not have an easy time of getting your gun, which improves your chances of survival.
If you are working, camping, fishing or hunting in a rural area or in the woods, it is one thing, in a urban area, it is just plain dangerous.
How many open carriers use these type of holsters?
If you are not willing to use at least a secure level II holster, you should not carry openly.

Jim
Click to expand...

There is not enough like in the World
 
I just see no reason for OC:

1. You're giving up a tremendous advantage of surprise
2. You're making yourself a priority target
3. You're inviting force-able removal of you're firearm ... possibly from behind or when you're otherwise not expecting it.

I'm all for OC freedom and I have it in my state, but I still carry concealed.
 
Chief,

I do not automatically rule it out (open carry is not legal here in Florida, right now), however, you are really asking to attract unwanted attention for yourself if you open carry.

One of my fellow officers came in to the office in plain clothes recently carrying his M4 in a rifle bag. A civilian saw him from across the street and called 911. As I pulled up to work, the entrance was being surrounded by local police officers with shotguns and M4's out (we are a Federal agency). Fortunately, no one panicked and it was quickly resolved without anyone getting hurt.

I just see too much opportunity for a bad situation to develop.

Also, if open carry is ever permitted in Florida, do you think the state will REQUIRE LEVEL II OR HIGHER SECURITY HOLSTERS?
If not, how many open carriers will plunk down the money for them on their own and also take gun retention courses?
How many fools will try to grab a gun for a prank? How many bad guys will try it for worse reasons/

Without that legal proviso to ONLY USE SECURE HOLSTERS, I am against it.

Also, it is being banned at numerous stores here in Florida, which is their right.

Jim
 
golden said:
I live in Florida and am a uniformed LEO. I carry my gun to work, at work and on my way home openly. The catch is that my gun rests in a security holster. That makes a HUGE difference to me. When I was a teenager, every year 1 out of 3 Florida cops were killed with their own gun. That stat has gone down for Law Enforcement across the board because of a combination of training and most importantly (in my opinion) the use of secure holsters. You can try a gun grab, but it is awkward if you have to unlock the holster and time consuming which gives the officer a chance to stop you.
During a training session, before my agency went to a secure holster, I had a trainer get my gun away from me. It was a bit of a shock, but afterwards, I understood just how vulnerable I (and every open gun carrier is).
One of my co-workers had someone get his gun out a a breakfront holster, back when revolvers were still the standard issue. He was saved by the other officers immediately jumping on the bad guy and putting a gun to his head.

Even if you get knocked down, the assailant will not have an easy time of getting your gun, which improves your chances of survival.
If you are working, camping, fishing or hunting in a rural area or in the woods, it is one thing, in a urban area, it is just plain dangerous.
How many open carriers use these type of holsters?
If you are not willing to use at least a secure level II holster, you should not carry openly.

Jim
Click to expand...

I have to agree security holsters are a good thing to have even if you CC or OC. However, I would also suggest a cop is more likely to have someone attempt to get your weapon then a civilian, and more likely to be attempted when your confronting someone over just randomly on patrol or getting your donuts and coffee. Jk , or am I wrong? Have you found a lot of reported civilians getting their guns swiped or attempts?

I use a security holster more because with my activities I am more worried about it coming out of my holster then someone attempting to steal it. I need to know that if stand on my head, or jump up and down like a mad man that it won’t come out.
 
Texasgrillchef.

According to studies done by NYPD, a plain clothes officer was much more likely to be attacked than a uniformed officer. I use that as a starting point. At this time, I do not know of any study of open carry be a qualified entity. I am going on my own experiences, knowledge and history.
Up until recently, active attacks on police officers were rare. It was usually during a confrontation or arrest, that an officer got attacked. On the other hand, civilians get mugged all the time.

So I do not agree with your conclusion, although studies may find you are right and I am incorrect on this. Their is just not enough information out right now on open carry.

I cannot think of too many, if any major cities where it is allowed. I have family in Virginia and it is legal there, but they have never seen anyone in a developed (read city) open carrying.

Jim
 
@golden

I hear you on unwanted attention. For everyday carry, I wouldn't open carry even if it were legal in South Caroline for no other reason than it's nobody else's business whether I'm carrying or not.
 
Texasgrillchef said:
Have you found a lot of reported civilians getting their guns swiped or attempts?
Click to expand...

Here is just a partial list that I found on another forum.


Man walking down State Street gets holstered weapon stolen
Gun stolen from open carrier at Walmart 12-2017
Man robbed of gun he was openly carrying- Newport News Va
Open carrier shot at by passing car
Louisiana man attempts to steal gun openly carried
Foodlion guard assassinated for his gun
Open Carrier attacked in wal-mart
Man Practicing open carry robbed of gun- Gresham Oregon
Open carriers gun stolen off his hip
Student robbed of openly carried firearm
Man stalked and attacked LEO for his openly carried firearm
Man Openly carrying his gun robbed at gunpoint
Man robbed of his gun at E.C gas station
Open Carry Gun Owner Robbed of brand new gun
Teens relieve dog walker of openly carried gun
Open Carry enthusiast robbed at gunpoint.
Man Proudly “open carrying” new pistol is robbed of it
Open carry individual robbed at gunpoint — Milwaukee
Medford Police responded assault and robbery , man reportedly followed to bathroom punched in face,.. firearm taken.
Man steals NYPD officers weapon, shoots deli clerk.
Man has shotgun ripped from his hands while investigating noise outside his home
Chatty smoker steals gun from open carrier
Man buying smokes gets openly carried firearm and holster taken.



The last time somebody tried to take my gun off me I was getting gas at a convenience store at 3am (wasn't optional it was a job requirement). The gas pump was malfunctioning and wouldn't dispense a receipt at the pump so I had to go into the store to get a receipt because I was required to turn one in.

As I walked in the door I walked past a tweaker sitting on the trash can and he jumped off and started following me as soon as I walked past him.

I noticed him immediately and I did three random turns inside the store to verify that he was following me and then I turned around and quartered up on him and ask him if there was something I could help him with.

When he realized that he wasn't going to jump me unawares he laughed at me and turned around and walked out of the store and left.

There was absolutely zero interaction. He picked me because he noticed I was carrying a gun and he wanted it.

My personal experience has been that the people that I ran into we're never all that impressed with my gun but when I pulled out the pepper spray they complied immediately.

I ran into a crazy homeless old man one morning and long story short he said he was going to kill me with an axe and he started digging through his shopping cart looking for the axe. Meanwhile I'm transmitting a blow-by-blow on my radio and asking for police backup. He found his axe and he turned around and when he saw that I was shaking up my OC spray he dropped that ax like it was on fire.

I presume you saw the video I posted, do you really think that a guy like that is going to hesitate because you're carrying a gun?
 
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I actually had an attempt on me once when I was carrying in a buscadero belt/holster.

The scenario was I was in costume for Halloween back when I was delivering pizza. Had, serape, boots, holster, right down to a replica Colt Peacemaker.

Yes...REPLICA, not the real thing. Not a cap gun or plastic model...an actual metal replica which looked real, felt real, and functioned real...just not capable of firing any real ammunition.

I was delivering pizza to a rather...shady...neighborhood. Two guys came out for the pizza and while one was "distracting me" with the whole payment thing, the other circled around to my holster side on my right...and made a grab for my revolver.

I dropped the pizza, reached down with my left hand and did a pinkie-grab and peeled his hand off and took him down to his knees...and then saw just how big his eyes could get when I drew the replica and thumbed the hammer back in his face.

A brief moment of posturing, which ended when I called them on their threats to call the police (car phones were getting pretty common place by then and I offered to make the call myself), got my money, and left.

Adrenaline withdrawal didn't start until I was back in my car and a few blocks away headed back to the store.

Boss put that area off-limits to all further deliveries.

The guy never got the replica out of the holster because he didn't understand the simple function of the leather hammer strap.

So yes...I can believe that the possibility of someone lifting your weapon while open carrying can be a very real possibility. In fact, anybody who has ever been accosted by bullies and whatnot growing up ought to know this, as well.

I don't open carry because it's none of anybody else's business knowing whether or not I am carrying a firearm. That's my primary reason. The fact that someone else may lift my weapon would still be secondary to this for me.

Whatever you choose...carry responsibly.
 
I vastly prefer concealed carry. I can see the utilization of open carry. Woods walking is one example. Another was when I worked in corrections. Obviously can't be armed with a firearm inside. Conceal carry would be an issue to easily put on/off with a tucked in polo into cargo pants. So I open carried to and from work with a paddle holster. The primary issue with open carry, you have to be far more aware of your surroundings.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
The last time somebody tried to take my gun off me I was getting gas at a convenience store at 3am (wasn't optional it was a job requirement). The gas pump was malfunctioning and wouldn't dispense a receipt at the pump so I had to go into the store to get a receipt because I was required to turn one in.

As I walked in the door I walked past a tweaker sitting on the trash can and he jumped off and started following me as soon as I walked past him.

I noticed him immediately and I did three random turns inside the store to verify that he was following me and then I turned around and quartered up on him and ask him if there was something I could help him with.

When he realized that he wasn't going to jump me unawares he laughed at me and turned around and walked out of the store and left.
Click to expand...

Did he indicate he wanted your gun specifically? Because from that story it is hard to infer that's specifically what he wanted. Maybe he just felt like messing with you because you have a uniform on?
 
I conceal carry for several reasons.

first is I want to be the grey man, no attention drawn to me if I can help it. if I don't know you or we are not being introduced by a common 3rd party I don't want to be bothered by a stranger.

second is I prefer not to be the first chosen target by a criminal because I am the one that can offer resistance. convicted felons have stated in interviews that they kill the man first before trying to rape and rob a family because the man is the one most likely to fight back. this would apply to robberies of any kind or one of life's losers doing a mass shooting.

third its more acceptable in the majority of social settings to conceal because none of the nancies get upset because they do not know you have a gun on.

I do open carry in the usual environments, hunting, fishing, messin' around in the woods stuff...
 
JR24 said:
Fair enough, just trying to understand
Click to expand...

In all honesty the guy in the convenience store, while he may not have been specifically trying to snatch my gun, he was targeting me and the gun which would have been a nice bonus did not deter him at all.

I can't explain the vibe, you had to be there
 
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I do not automatically rule it out (open carry is not legal here in Florida, right now)
Click to expand...

Incorrect and as a LEO you should know better; it is perfectly legal to OC while hunting, fishing, camping, among other activities.
 
George P said:
Incorrect and as a LEO you should know better; it is perfectly legal to OC while hunting, fishing, camping, among other activities.
Click to expand...

In the Colorado Springs municipal court house there is a "copy" of the Colorado Revised Code on display. It's well over three hundred volumes each the size of the LA phone book. Do you seriously expect a cop to be familiar with the whole thing?
 
Trunk Monkey said:
In all honesty the guy in the convenience store, while he may not have been specifically trying to snatch my gun, he was targeting me and the gun which would have been a nice bonus did not deter him at all.

I can't explain the vibe, you had to be there
Click to expand...


I appreciate your stories and perspective
 
Trunk Monkey said:
In the Colorado Springs municipal court house there is a "copy" of the Colorado Revised Code on display. It's well over three hundred volumes each the size of the LA phone book. Do you seriously expect a cop to be familiar with the whole thing?
Click to expand...
Nope, and why cops are the WORST folks to ask about what is legal - one's BEST source is hiring a lawyer in that state familiar with the laws. And yes, my dad was a cop.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
In the Colorado Springs municipal court house there is a "copy" of the Colorado Revised Code on display. It's well over three hundred volumes each the size of the LA phone book. Do you seriously expect a cop to be familiar with the whole thing?
Click to expand...
That's why no one agency in any state enforces all the laws in that state. There is so much specialization in LE these days, its silly.
 
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