Open vs. concealed carry

[Vern Humphrey]

Armed robbery situation.

If the robber sees the gun, you're the first target.

How do you know this to be true?

 

[ArmedBear]

Being shot in the back because an armed robber knows you're armed doesn't seem like a good plan.

I wasn't talking about a deterrent. The point is that you have the option of deterring an attack by pointing the gun at a potential attacker, or leaving the gun hidden and waiting for the best opportunity for defense.

 

[HKUSP45C]

Armed robbery situation.

If the robber sees the gun, you're the first target.

I think it could also be successfully argued that an armed robbery wouldn't occur if there was an armed person standing there.

 

[ArmedBear]

How do you know this to be true?

I don't know it from experience.

I do, however, find my sources trustworthy (longtime cops, one with extensive military covert ops experience in Southeast Asia -- his simply being ALIVE is enough evidence that he knows a bit about tactics).

 

[Deanimator]

Open carry used to be REQUIRED when driving in Ohio.

Do what you want that's legal.

If you ask Chuck Schumer, OWNING a gun is "asking for trouble", nevermind carrying one, nevermind how.

I'm not interested in people's "feelings" about legal activities, only what's not prohibited by law.

 

[ArmedBear]

I think it could also be successfully argued that an armed robbery wouldn't occur if there was an armed person standing there.

I'm not interested in arguments about hypothetical bull****, though.

The fact is, armed robberies and other attacks happen when there are armed people standing there.

How many haven't happened? Who knows. It's not my job to lower the crime rate. It's my job to raise my life expectancy.

Like I said, I OC. I just think there are times and places where CC can be preferable, from a personal standpoint.

 

[Rockwell1]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=451724&highlight=open+carry+oc
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=450833&highlight=open+carry+oc
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=447987&highlight=open+carry+oc
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=448276&highlight=open+carry+oc
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=448202&highlight=open+carry+oc
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=343109&highlight=open+carry+oc
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=440645&highlight=open+carry+oc
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=421841&highlight=open+carry+oc

And here’s a link to the 16 pages compromising 394 threads dealing with this subject

http://www.thehighroad.org/search.php?searchid=6218045&pp=25&page=2

But, hey you go ahead because I'm sure you have something new to add to the debate.

 

[HKUSP45C]

I'm not interested in arguments about hypothetical bull****, though.

Oh, sorry, when I saw what you were basing you choices on I thought we were all talking in hypotheticals.

 

[Rockwell1]

If the robber sees the gun, you're the first target.

How do you know this to be true?

Vern, why are you surprised? go back through that list of threads I posted, this comes up every time someone posts this debate ( as opposed to using SEARCH)

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't know it from experience.

Do you have any data about how often this happens, if it happens at all?

I do, however, find my sources trustworthy (longtime cops, one with extensive military covert ops experience in Southeast Asia -- his simply being ALIVE is enough evidence that he knows a bit about tactics).

I have extensive experinence in Southeast Asia -- and I can't remember any armed robberies there where armed civilians were shot. We were mostly in military combat there.

I'm not interested in arguments about hypothetical bull****, though.

Absent any real evidence, the proposition that a robber will shoot an openly-armed citizen first is hypothetical.

 

[ArmedBear]

Oh, sorry, when I saw what you were basing you choices on I thought we were all talking in hypotheticals.

I said "arguments" which was the word you used.

The FACT is that armed robberies occur when there are armed people standing around. The FACT is that a highly-publicized incident occurred a few weeks ago where there were armed men standing around, and one of them was the first victim and the only fatality. Maybe you heard about it? http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j73mOCpZWfIdWfRPB_a8VSi7z-0Q

OC acting as a deterrent is hypothetical. Armed people being shot by armed attackers is a fact.

Rockwell1, not sure what those threads are good for, but welcome to my Ignore List.

 

[HKUSP45C]

ArmedBear, that wasn't an armed robbery.

 

[ArmedBear]

the proposition that a robber will shoot an openly-armed citizen first is hypothetical.

American Rifleman, a few months ago. Can't find the cite right now, and have things to do.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The FACT is that armed robberies occur when there are armed people standing around. The FACT is that a highly-publicized incident occurred a few weeks ago where there were armed men standing around, and one of them was the first victim and the only fatality. Maybe you heard about it?

The FACT is that anecdotal evidence is just that -- not reliable enough to trust your life on. How many robberies have been deterred by obviously armed men?

And why, if the robbers always shoot the armed men, do security companies used armed guards? Why are police not only openly armed, but uniformed, too? Why don't we trip over the bodies of dead cops as we walk down the street?

 

[ArmedBear]

ArmedBear, that wasn't an armed robbery.

You're right.

I'm not one to care about the motivations behind a flying bullet, though.

Is it safe to assume that armed robbers are rational actors?

 

[General Geoff]

No, in fact armed robbers are anything BUT rational.

Rational (adj) - consistent with or based on or using reason; "rational behavior"; "a process of rational inference"; "rational thought"

Armed robbers use FORCE, not reason.

 

[HKUSP45C]

You're setting up straw men. We're talking about this, this is this, it isn't that.

 

[ArmedBear]

How many robberies have been deterred by obviously armed men?

I don't know. Neither do you.

I'll keep my gun concealed when I think it's a better choice. Go ahead and carry yours openly at all times.

If that's a deterrent, it will help me anyway. If not, you'll get shot first and I'll have time to draw and fire.

 

[ArmedBear]

You're setting up straw men.

No I'm not.

Your assumption is that an armed robber will act differently. I don't think one can assume that.

Again, do what you all want.

I OC, probably more than most around here. This is hardly an anti-OC post.

 

[Corporal K]

OC is certainly more convenient but as far as being tactically "better" for civilians, I doubt there's hard evidence to prove it.

 

[HKUSP45C]

I never made the assumption that you were anti OC I was merely trying to point out that the logic you're using may be flawed. In fact, I never even said you were wrong, just that you lacked evidence to support your opinion.

Since it's really more of a religious ideology we're discussing there's nothing wrong with admitting your decisions are based entirely on arbitrary critea that are logically indefensible.

I know mine are.

Both sides of the debate have a dearth of usable information so it really does come down to "this is how I feel."

I just wish more people would admit it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

NavyLT takes another bite of popcorn and continues to watch the show...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't know. Neither do you.

Actually, there is plenty of evidence that armed citizens deter crime. Now, being openly armed is being armed, is it not? And absent any evidence that legions of armed robbers are shooting down hordes of armed guards, cops and openly armed citzens, there is no point in fearing open carry.

I'll keep my gun concealed when I think it's a better choice. Go ahead and carry yours openly at all times.

That's fine. Do as you choose, but don't give ammunition to those who would limit the rights of others to do as they choose.

 

[ezypikns]

Do whatever you want/can.

I carry concealed for two reasons:

1. I don't want ANYONE to know I'm armed.

2. The laws of the state I live in forbid open carry.

Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Rockwell1]

one with extensive military covert ops experience in Southeast Asia -- his simply being ALIVE is enough evidence that he knows a bit about tactics

And he's now the Lieutenant of a three man rapid tactical force at one of America's largest indoor retail centers, where he stands guard over the shoppers lives like a GAWD?