Opinion piece from Dr. John Lott in the Wall Street Journal

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by hso, Oct 17, 2020.

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  1. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    Yes, it's collected by the BATF, but I'm pretty sure any tax is also under the jurisdiction of the IRS. Can anybody point me to specifics? If it were restructured to be identified as a fee and not as an excise tax, then it would be a different case.
     
  2. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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  3. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Soon after the Las Vegas shooting, Trump vowed to outlaw bump stocks and his administration did. Since there was resistance by lawmakers, the only way this could be accomplished was by a regulatory change. Thus Trump directed the Justice Dept to make a regulatory change in the definition of what constitutes a fully automatic weapon.That change now means, by law, possession of once legal bump stocks now could mean hefty fines and up to ten years in prison. Whether it was a law or rule change, it still was a move by Trump and put more restrictions upon responsible gun ownership.....and that, is canon.
     
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  4. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    The NFA taxes are administered by the ATF, not the IRS. (Yes, the ATF originally was part of the IRS, but it was split off many years ago. Now, it's not even part of Treasury, but has been moved over to the Justice Department.)

    (Personal note: I worked for the IRS for 30 years, from 1970 to 2000. At the beginning of my career, indeed, some of the ATF guys shared office space with us at the national headquarters in Washington. They had their firearms reference collection in the old Tax Court vault on the 7th floor, and they would occasionally give tours to those of us who worked nearby. But they were soon gone.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
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  5. 23tony

    23tony Member

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    Without a change in the media that people trust and what that media is saying, I don't see any wholesale way to do it.
    Outsourcing the effort.
     
  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Federal taxes on legal guns to stop Gun Violence.
    Like federal taxes (1937 Marihuana Tax Act) to stop Reefer Madness.
    These advocates need be investigated for connections with the black market.
     
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  7. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Private sales in recent years might help if "the worst" gradually were to happen.

    The agencies plus the "wannabe Big Brothers/Sisters" don't know what you own, unless insured or otherwise recorded in a database, or legally accessible book. Correct?

    As Alexander A said: the workload for the Feds to ever begin trying to round up semi-auto rifles would be so vast. That party's platform on guns must be because they are worried about enthusiasm for "Sleepy".

    Wouldn't such an attempt by the Gun Grabbers also go to the Supreme Court? I'm well-ware of their pans for court-stacking, but under option "A" (Orange Man remaining), the Supreme Court would rule it unconstitutional as illegal seizure of private property, or words to that effect?
     
  8. climbnjump

    climbnjump Member

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    It has been said many times before - there will be no door-to-door collection effort IF a ban ever became "you know, the thing".

    They would simply declare an amnesty period of some months to allow you to turn them in beyond which you would become a felon for possessing the banned object.

    So you will be "free" to keep it, but charged with a felony if you ever bring it out of the closet to someplace where it can be seen by someone willing to turn you in. And, of course, once THAT happens, you will lose ALL of your firearms not to mention a whole bunch of other rather negative consequences.
     
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  9. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    Ya, I don't know ... and I don't mean to criticize or offend, and only quoting as an example to effect and not to be personal ... but ... it's statements like this that one expects to hear when people begin trying to accomodate their thinking to tolerate something unwanted and unpleasant ... but not inevitable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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  10. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    I think it's simply just that a lot of folks here are in denial.

    It'll never happen here like it did in Australia or New Zealand, right?

    Sure, and about that bridge you want to buy ... I've been around long enough to have seen that a lot of things have occurred in my lifetime alone that most Americans never, ever would have believed could happen in our country.
     
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  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Campaign rhetoric to help people can be disbelieved in safety while rhetoric to hurt gun owners can't. Intent, even when it would be nearly impossible to follow through, is very important when it is intent to harm.
     
  12. climbnjump

    climbnjump Member

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    No offense taken. :)

    Your point of view is important. I don't, however believe that the scenario I laid out is inevitable. I don't KNOW what will happen any more than anyone else does.

    This. Those who believe that something CAN'T or WON'T happen here simply because it hasn't happened yet, are ignoring possible risks that are becoming evident. Again, nothing is inevitable either way.

    Exactly.
     
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  13. gifbohane

    gifbohane Member

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    Yeah. Back in the day, the US Government SWORE that they would only send you to Southeast Asia for one tour.

    Some guys were sent back 2 or 3 times. They can change any rule, at any time, and I do not trust them (the lifer politicians.)
     
  14. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    Good!! Agreed!! :thumbup:

    Then let's not prepare ourselves with justifications to accept it; let's wait until that's necessary.
     
  15. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    climbnjump:
    I was never one of the "sky is falling, 'cause they said $o" types.
    The $ sign is one of the main motivations for fear-mongering in the retail industry.

    My comments about the notion of mass confiscations ("grandfathering" far more likely) were partly to play the devil's advocate on a hypothetical basis.
     
  16. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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  17. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    The problem with such taxes at any stage except point of purchase, is that it effectively establishes a gun registry. Which is what tyrants historically do as a prerequisite for confiscation.
     
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  18. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I have read that in other countries who have mandated involuntary "buybacks" and the like, and also in individual US states that enacted "assault weapon" bans of various flavors, the vast majority of gun owners have simply not reported their firearms.
     
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  19. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    He was persuaded by the NRA that outlawing bump stocks would avert the enactment of an "assault weapons" ban.
     
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  20. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    ?
    Are you saying that when a person insures their firearms, the government gets that information?
     
  21. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    No they don't, but the government can get it if they need it for a criminal investigation. ( I had this conversation with my insurance agent ).
     
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  22. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    When I joined the NRA it included insurance on up to $2500 worth of guns, no serial numbers etc required. I can't remember the name of the company, but I guess most people here have more than $2500 worth, which insurance company do folks here use?
     
  23. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    Normal homeowner's insurance will only cover guns to the tune of whatever they allow for personal belongs, home furnishings and other content. Nothing extra for guns, unless you buy a rider. And then they'll need proof of ownership and value: pictures, serial numbers, sales receipts or appraisals.
     
  24. pairof44sp

    pairof44sp Member

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    Changing the attitude of an adult is probably out of reach, but you can work on the attitudes of their children.

    For every anti-gunner, there is a little boy who wishes he could shoot guns like the other little boys, but cannot, because mom and dad say "We are an anti-gun family."

    How about college shooting clubs? That'll get them at the time when they first taste a little freedom.

    I got my first gun (Ruger P89) when I arrived at college. We started a student club called Chix with Guns, and student government wound up paying for all of our ammo, clays, and used junk we bought at Goodwill to shoot at. This was at Reed College BTW, which has a rep as the most liberal college in America.
     
  25. pairof44sp

    pairof44sp Member

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    This is a good point. On a contrary note, Australia and New Zealand don't have much of a gun industry to destroy. So it will likely be tougher to do that here, where there is a large gun industry.
     
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