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Opinions on AR optics

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Eightball, Mar 10, 2008.

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  1. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    Yeah, I know, this has been done a zillion times. Ever try a search with anything AR related, and you'll be reading for weeks.

    Question comes down to this: What would be the pros/cons of an EOTech + a 3x or 4x magnifier (fixed or side flip, you tell me) vs. an AGOG, other than the "No batteries" bit? (And the EOTech I have in mind is the one that takes AA but isn't NV compatible--because that is not a concern).

    My rifle: RRA 16" Middy w/fixed front sight post, flattop.
    My purpose: Shooting to a distance from 15-300yds average, with a very occasional 500 yard shot, any given purpose.
    My price range: well, the idea of paying $1200 up front for an ACOG is dang near abhorrent to me since my rifle was $900. I know that optics are important, especially on a precision boltgun--which this is not (precision is handy, but you get what I'm saying). If that's truly the best option, well, then that's what happens, but just thought I'd ask.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
  2. ColinthePilot

    ColinthePilot Member

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    Ok, I'm not an expert on optics or AR's (yet. researching my first AR now :) ) What is the point of putting a magnified scope AND an EOTech (red dot without magnification, right?) on a rifle? I'm thinking of pics i've seen of a magnifier scope mounted in series with an EOTech. I understand the EOTech to be meant for quick acquisition of a target, which a normal scope wouldn't offer. A scope offers long range targeting but isn't very rapid due to the small sight picture. What is the advantage of using both?
     
  3. EdLaver

    EdLaver Member

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    I personally dont use any optics on my AR, all I have are night sights installed. But I have shot 'em with the ACOG and its the best hands down.
     
  4. Guitargod1985

    Guitargod1985 Member

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    The way I see it, if you have an Eotech holographic sight with a magnifier on the flip to side mount, it gives you the option of 3x magnification or no magnification. That's the advantage as I see it. Another thing to consider is the fact that you can mount the magnifier to sit above your rear flip-up iron sight and if you need the irons you just use the flip to side mount to move the magnifier out of the way without having to remove it.
     
  5. NC-Mike

    NC-Mike Member

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    I have the EOTech 512 and EOTech 3X magnifier on a Sig 556. I also have a scoped AR with 20" barrel.

    For long shots of 300+ yards, the scoped rifle is the better tool. The EOTech holo-sights are meant for CQC. The Magnifier is meant to engage target out to 200 meters or so. I think..

    With the magnifier, you have the ability to quickly engage targets at medium distances but the magnifier also magnifies the reticule, giving it a pixilated appearance, just like a cheap-o red dot with no magnification.

    IMO, the EOTech is not an optic you want to use for target or precision shooting at long ranges.
     
  6. rc109a

    rc109a Member

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    I have the TA33R8 ACOG and it is great. I only use it to 300yards. If I am going to shoot longer I use a regular scope with higher magnification. The 3X and 4X just does not seem to be enough for a precise shot at ranges greater then 300 yards. Others can and will do it. It has marks for 500 meters.
     
  7. LongRangeInternational

    LongRangeInternational Member

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    Triicon Accupoint. 1.5-4x magnification, tritium/fiber optics. I love mine. I can shoot with both eyes open and then dial up the magnification for longer shots.
     
  8. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Zak Smith did a piece about this very topic. Look up his name and optics, you should find it.

    The real question is whether or not you want a magnified optic. If you don't, a red dot should be fine. Aimpoint or Eotech, both are good. Aimpoint wins on durability and ease of use. Eotech allows greater accuracy with the 65 MOA ring and 1 MOA dot.

    You can get a magnifier for the red dots, and that's apparently a decent way to have your cake and eat it, too. Just be advised that they take up space on the rail, add weight, and have a limited FOV.

    If you want a magnified optic, be prepared to toss out some dough if you also want to maintain "tactical" 1x magnification in one scope. There's no free lunch here. Trij accupoint is mentioned by Zak as being the low-budget option that still works well.

    Mike
     
  9. rino451

    rino451 Member

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    On an AR in 5.56, stick with just the eotech/aimpoint or just irons for that matter. While an acog will help with "precision" shot at the longer ranges, some people (me included) can't use it both eyes open for CQB. Also, I paid something like $680 for my acog over a year ago, so there are options well under $1200 assuming that you are in the US.

    If an Ar-10, then get a "real" scope and a Dr. Optic for just in case, or even get a bolt gun for long range work.

    Finding an optic or combination of optics that do all the jobs well is as futile as finding a single rifle to all the jobs well. Can't pick the correct hammer for that particular screw ;)
     
  10. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Read Zak Smith's piece on optics. Also keep in mind the difference between practical application off the range and on the range.

    In my opinion, many people overestimate the effective range of red dots based on their range experience. On a nicely mown range with known distances, it is much easier to spot a brown IDPA target and hit it without magnification. In that type of circumstance, people can and do make hits at 500yds with unmagnified red dots and at 300yds, it is child's play.

    However, set up the same target on a Texas cow trail with mesquite, brush and other elements present and engagement ranges drop dramatically even though there is nothing intervening between the target and shooter. The target just becomes much harder to acquire without magnification unless you have really good eyesight.

    To give a practical example, in an Intermediate Rifle class I took at Tac Pro Shooting Center, we did a "jungle run" like what I described above. The entire course was about 300yds long; but the longest shots taken were 80 and 90yds (both by magnified optics). Red dots were running about half that distance (40-50yds) for longest shots. If you cannot acquire and identify the target, then being able to hit it more quickly never becomes useful.
     
  11. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

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    I prefer the AA EOTech.
    I love the reticle, the precise 1 MOA dot has allowed me to make head shots on a steel ram
    off hand @ 400 yards and the 65 MOA circle of death is super fast on targets that are close.
    I carry spare AA batteries in the MIAD grip and more can be carried in the LMT SOPMOD stock.

    [​IMG]

    I have an EOTech 4X FTS.
    It is an awesome piece of clear glass, but I don't like it's short eye relief or it's added weight.
    Also, I looked at the ACOG and decided against it because of it's short eye relief.
     
  12. ckay

    ckay Member

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    I own both, and the ACOG collects dust and has been.
     
  13. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Here's the short version

    [​IMG]
    article | Fighting Optics - A Short Guide [​IMG]

    The longer version was in the 4 Feb Shotgun News and discussed some other scopes and had more detail.
     
  14. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    I have been thinking the along the same lines with the Eotech and 3x magnifier. Now I am having second thoughts because I had not thought of magnifying the dot. The rifle I am outfitting is the .50 Beowulf. I am planning on using it for some hog hunting and have an Eotech style sight on it now that i took off of one of my AR's but would like some magnification. I am now thinking of the ACOG but don't like the short eye relief with a heavy recoil rifle. Decisions, decisions!
     
  15. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Keep in mind that there are well over a dozen different ACOGs with different magnifications, exit pupils, eye relief, etc. You can usually find one that matches your needs if that is what you want.

    Don't overlook variables either. They can do very well as a multi-role optic.
     
  16. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    Any thoughts on the Burris 1.75-5x32 Signature Safari Rifle scope. This looks more in line with what I want the scope to do. How will it hold up to heavy recoil?
    [​IMG]
     
  17. MHBushmaster

    MHBushmaster Member

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    I've actually have both, a Eotech 552 (AA & NV capable) and a TA01 ECOS Acog. I have them on seperate 16" AR carbines. They serve different roles. One is for closer work for faster target acquisition, the other for a medium range fighting carbine. I like the Eotech with the maginification behind it because it allows the option to go from 1x magnification (none) to 3.5x in a matter of seconds. I guess the same can be said of the ACOG with the Doctor optic mounted on top, but either way you choose, both are good pieces of gear to have as an option.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  18. Click Click Boom

    Click Click Boom Member

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    both Burris and Bushnell make decent 1-4 IR scopes in short compact sizes.
     
  19. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    if you want a true 1x-4x variable under a grand, take a long look at the Meopta Meostar R1 with the k-dot... lot of three gun shooters are using it.
    atek3
     
  20. Dienekes

    Dienekes Member

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    My m4gery wears a TA45-2 1.5 x 24 amber triangle compact ACOG. Worth every penny, from touching distance out to 300 yards. Coming up on 2 years of regular use and I like it better every day.

    Currently setting an M1A up with a TA 33 3 X 30 compact ACOG. Don't have all the pieces yet but getting close. It's also made with stadia for 5.56.
     
  21. Drue

    Drue Member

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    What do you guys think of the ACOGs with the Docter red dot sight mounted? The cost is "way up there" but it seems to offer both a magnified optic for distance and a head up, both eyes open red dot for speed at closer range.

    Drue

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Drue, you need to try before you buy. The red dot on top of the ACOG creates a different cheek weld to use the red dot. Since cheek weld isn't important to a red dot, I did not think it would be a big deal. You can even make an argument that it gives a better "heads up" position; but in actual practice I found it disconcerting and hard to use.

    Not to mention the general problems inherent in training for two different cheek welds under stress...
     
  23. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    I was wondering about that, myself. The superposed red dot seems to be waaaaaaaay up there.

    Mike
     
  24. Darthbauer

    Darthbauer Member

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    I have the one with the red dot but I like it and have not had any problems.
     
  25. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Have you tried using the ACOG as an OEG at close range, instead of the dot? I'd have to try it all three ways (standard ACOG, ACOG as OEG, and ACOG with superposed dot) before I figured out which I liked best.

    Mike
     
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