opinions on Enfield Jungle Carbine in .308?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by upptick, May 14, 2022.

  1. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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    For myself, I'd want to inspect these sorts of conversions before bidding. I've seen a number of Gibbs and Santa Fe faux Jungle carbines over the years and workmanship hasn't been very consistent. I remember (and regret) passing on one particularly nice 'jungled' Ishy back in the `90s that looked like a good deal, but I've also handled a couple that were about as rough as a mismatched bolt on a Mosin or Carcano action.

    I'm also pretty leery of the prices these faux carbines are commanding right now on GB -- they're fun rifles as curiosities, but being neither fine sporters nor military collectibles their future resale value seems dubious.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
  2. Dave DeLaurant

    Dave DeLaurant Member

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    1K is quite correct. The 308/7.62 Lee Enfield story has some interesting chapters.

    The Ishapore Arsenal produced newly-made rifles in 7.62 NATO for the Indian Army using a modified SMLE No.1 action.




    In the UK, some Lee Enfields (mostly No.4 actions) did see conversion for both military and sporting use.





    The 7.62 L42A1 sniping rifle was arguably the last gasp of the Lee Enfield in British military service.

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
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  3. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

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    I’d rather have a Gunsite.
     
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  4. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    The 2A that I have is a fun gun to go shoot larger steel targets offhand. I've shot my own mild 308 loads and steel cased Tula which also feels mild. Bang and clang!
     
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  5. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    I have a full length Ishy, unless I took a bunch of close up pics, you might not/would not believe the beautiful condition it is in. It is of equal quality to any SMLE I have. I did have to rasp off about 1/4" of wood, and get all the black choo-choo train paint off it, but it's a jewel. I paid $80.00 for it. I don't think the Ishy carbines were ever factory made originally. The Ishapur is just fine with .7.62 NATO, there's no concerns there.

    On recoil and muzzle blast, I have a No.5 and it is not a problem. Highly over rated, the recoil thing. Only if one is overly recoil sensitive. The 7.62 will of course recoil a bit more than a .303, but...be a man, not a kid! If it does give you a psychological boo-boo, Just load it down with lighter bullets.
     
  6. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Right, on the other hand, one does not have to "like" recoil. I have three rifles in ".308", and all three are early guns not designed for .308 Winchester. The Ishy, a FR8 and a CETME. So, all my 7.62X51 loads are mild. At one time I loaded the 123 grain bullet in the No.5, but have since gone back to the standard load with a 174 grain FMJ bullet, or a 180 grain Sierra if I think I might have to shoot something that bleeds.

    Generally speaking, with the SMLE action, one will be fine as long as you don't hot-rod it. Don't ask me how I know that.
     
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  7. earplug

    earplug Member

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    Expensive ammo in a milsurp rifle without modern accuracy.
     
  8. OneFreeTexan

    OneFreeTexan Member

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    Earplug, do you own one, or have you?
     
  9. Terry G

    Terry G Member

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    SMLE (2).JPG I have two British SMLE's. They are fun to shoot. The original Enfield No.5 Jungle Carbine in .303 is not.
     
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  10. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    DSC07518.JPG
    I suppose recoil is in the shoulder of the beholder. However, I will still say recoil in the No.5 is not what it's cracked up to be. I'm not sure what the No.5 weighs, but this rifle is 7.1 pounds, and I just got done working up a full power load with the Sierra 180 grain bullet, and then did quite a bit of shooting sighting it in, and making a rear sight change and doing it again. It's not that bad. It was..."fun". Although I know from experience that you don't want to hot rod the .303, I made sure these loads were clocking 2450fps. It's when you push the 174-180 grain bullets to 2600fps, or the 150's to 2700+fps that you start to see case separations. Anyhow, an Ishy "Jungle Carbine" is not going to be a "beast" to shoot.
     
  11. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    From a British paratrooper who was asked to test fire one:

     
  12. Regdor1999

    Regdor1999 Member

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    I had a .303 Jungle Carbine in the past. The recoil and noise was definitely more than the other Enfield war clubs I had at the time, but not as bad as the .300 Win Mag I used to hunt with! I wasn't bad, but it wasn't enjoyable either, and other than the curiosity factor of owning one that is "different", I didn't think it was actually worth it. We all have different preferences, though, but you'll pay a premium for the jungle carbines.
     
  13. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    There used to be those "kits", for make-em-yourself No.5's. That was a good deal for when one came across one hundred dollar bubba specials. Fairly recently I looked around for those, but they don't seem to be out there anymore. Now I don't need one, I'm going to leave that rifle above just as it is. My "Poor Man's English Stalking Rifle". !!!!!
     
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  14. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Improving felt recoil of my Enfield #5s, or Anything Else:

    While sitting Upright ( leaning forward exposes more shoulder bone) or standing, hold the shooting arm in any sort of 'chickenwing' position and recoil is a good bit less harsh.
     
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  15. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    The recoil on the Jungle Carbine is pretty mild. I'd compare the recoil of a 303 JC to a standard-weight 270... you'll know it went off, but it's not going to break your shoulder. With a K98 or Mosin M44 and some heavy-ball machine gun loads, I wouldn't be sure about that.

    Haven't shot one in 308, but a 7 lb 308 rifle is par for the course these days.

    Accuracy... ehhh. Pretty much any factory rifle these days can outshoot a milsurp.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  16. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Mosin Bubba: This Norwegian girl doesn't even complain. She can buy me a "man purse".:)

    When the Danes took about half of England in the 9th Century, even the Danes were concerned about the tough Norwegians. :scrutiny:

     
  17. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Mine is great.
    Mine is reasonably accurate to 300yards, but I'd rather stay within 200.
    .308 would be a decent hog caliber.
     
  18. Rshooter

    Rshooter Member

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    I bought two full rifles a long time ago and slicked them up. One I gave to my brother and the other I still have. It is an accurate rifle that was made to shoot 7.62 NATO so I would not feed it 308 commercial. I cannot believe the prices that they are selling for now. I would go for a full sized one instead of a "jungle" model made by Gibbs, for reasons already stated about wandering zero.
     
  19. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    I had a full-length Ishapore 2A in 308. I found it rather crude, with a rough action and not terribly accurate. Of course, I also have a much older (1917) Ishapore SMLE .410 musket and it is beautiful, smooth, and remarkabley consistent for a smoothbore- 5" groups at 50YDs with slugs is easy.

    For a .308 Milsurp, your very best bet is a rebarrelled M1903A3. Send CMP your gun and they will put a Criterion barrel on it easy peasey.

    I also recommend the Spanish FR8 "Mauser." Very handy, great sights, modest recoil. :thumbup:
     
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  20. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    The FR8 is also very accurate. Don't know what they are going for these days though. Might be pricey.
     
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