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Opinions on first 9mm handloads

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by nojoke, Mar 8, 2013.

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  1. nojoke

    nojoke Member

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    handloadleftvfederalfactoryleft_zps1e5ab4a2.gif

    handload on the left / federal factory ammo on right

    handload_zps5be0b5ad.gif

    Handload plunk test (drops in an out without a snag)

    Federalfactoryammo_zps1c5fee0f.gif

    Federal factory fit

    IMG_5567_zps45605dea.gif

    Sig 2022 magazine fit
     
  2. matworz

    matworz Member

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    You asked for opinions. We gave them. If you believe the majority of us that told you the same thing are wrong... then why did you ask? I can tell by looking that the profile of those two bullets are different. Do you know the length of those factory bullets? Why don't you mark one of those factory loads and pull one apart to see the depth below the case mouth? It looks to me like you have very little purchase on your bullet. Dangerous? Probably not. You seem convinced it is ok, and continue to try to prove it. So be it. I guess you are good to go. Not really sure what you want to hear, if not our honest opinions.
     
  3. Reefinmike

    Reefinmike Member

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    left side of the first pic looks like you are crimping too much. With how little of the bullet is in the case, id be weary on those. First, Id cycle them ten times in your gun. slide locked back and then drop the slide. cycle 5 random ones ten times and measure before and after. I dont load 9mm so Im not too sure how much setback is unacceptable. maybe around .02"?

    anyways, Id load up 10 of varying lengths and shoot em all.
     
  4. matworz

    matworz Member

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    I did it for you. I had a box of Federals. Took one apart.
    Fed on left, Berrys on right. Both 115's.
    Line shows how deep it was seated. Roughly .225". How deep are yours seated? Do they have a hollow base?
    [​IMG]
    Why the difference? Hollow base and completely different ogive.
    [​IMG]
    Lesson: a bullet is not a bullet is not a bullet.
     
  5. nojoke

    nojoke Member

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    In no way am I wanting to be argumentative.
    I will seat further down.
    Just taking pics of what I have done so far.

    Thanks for the advice - very valuable! :D
     
  6. vtail

    vtail Member

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  7. matworz

    matworz Member

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    Seriously... don't guess. Measure. Handloading is not rocket science, but it is precision. Even holding one up next to it will give you an idea of how much purchase you have on that bullet. The more purchase, the straighter they will seat and less likely they are to jar loose. This forum is about sharing experience and knowledge, glad you are here.
     
  8. vtail

    vtail Member

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    Are you using a combination seater/crimper die or a separate seater and crimper?

    If the former, is it the combination seater/roll crimp die or the combination seater/taper crimp die?
     
  9. Reefinmike

    Reefinmike Member

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    not sure if you saw my comment, but the picture at the top of page two looks like you are crimping too much. back off that a tad and as everyone has said... seat deeper!
     
  10. nojoke

    nojoke Member

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    vtail-

    I'll play with the linkage - yes I have one.

    I adjust the powderfunnel by raising/lowering the powder station die. I'll post a pic later of what the flair looks like - its just enough to grab a bullet (imo).

    I belive I have the combination seater/taper crimp die - I don't think there's a clear description on the hornady box.

    This set:
    358349_01_hornady_3die_set_for_9mm_luger_640.jpg

    [​IMG]
     
  11. matworz

    matworz Member

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    Nope... "The Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension Nitride 3-Die Set is a great die set for the avid reloader. The set includes a CGND Nitride Full-length Sizing Die, CGND Adjustable Case Mouth Expander Die, and CGND Seater Die with roll crimp." Does anyone know why they even make a roll crimp for 9x19? Wouldn't the only use be for 9mm revolvers and moon clips?
     
  12. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    You should use taper crimp and not roll crimp for semi-auto rounds that headspace on case mouths. If you look at the finished round on the left, you can see the bullet actually indented significantly (I wonder what the OD measurement is at that point?) and certainly this reduced diameter will likely allow the case mouth to be inserted into the leade/freebore of the barrel instead of case mouth headspacing on the chamber - not a good thing.

    [​IMG]


    Pictures showing case mouths headspacing on the chamber (pictures not to scale)

    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  13. nojoke

    nojoke Member

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    oof.
    Does anyone have a part number for the taper crimp/seater die?
     
  14. vtail

    vtail Member

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  15. matworz

    matworz Member

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    I personally use the Lee Factory Crimp die. Some love it, others have no use for it. Seat and crimp in separate steps. I have a 4 hole press, so no big deal to me. I still have no idea why Hornady sells 9x19 with a roll crimp die. You can still use it. It'll remove your flare, its just a hell of a lot touchier of an adjustment. You really don't need to crimp 9x19, just remove the case bell - if your seating depth is proper and neck tension is good.
     
  16. nojoke

    nojoke Member

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    more pics :)

    case begins at .3760 virgin new
    sizing goes to .3750
    flair goes to .3880
    final at .3760 (need to play with crimp)

    Ends at 1.1555 OAL

    Flair:
    flair_zps8fbe8c75.gif

    bullet on top of flair:
    flairwbullet_zpsdf73fa7f.gif

    completed round (at previous crimp setting - still need to play with this I believe):
    complete_zps1e7fa457.gif
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  17. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Looks like too much flare and a roll crimp.
     
  18. nojoke

    nojoke Member

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    Wow. Ok, I thought I was fine with the flair. I'll work on taht first then the crimp.
     
  19. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    It just looks like more than you need, overworking the brass and lessening case life. Use just enough to stop the bullet from being shaved when you seat it.
     
  20. matworz

    matworz Member

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    That's about how I flare for plated bullets. I've peeled off the plating on too many with a lesser flare. For fmj bullets it is more than needed, but I doubt it'll shorten your brass life all that much. I generally lose them before I wear them out.

    OAL looks much better to me.

    You already know about the crimp. Gonna be tough with a roll crimp die, but keep messing with it. I'm guessing you're good with the method of adjusting crimp without changing your seat depth?

    Looking good... getting close!
     
  21. nojoke

    nojoke Member

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    "You already know about the crimp. Gonna be tough with a roll crimp die, but keep messing with it. I'm guessing you're good with the method of adjusting crimp without changing your seat depth?"

    Umm, no? I was going to just play with the crimp (raise the die) then play with the bullet depth?
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    The flare is OK. A little more than needed, but OK.

    You need a real taper crimp die. Lee and Redding both sell one. C&H does as well.

    Hornady cheaps out and puts a 45ish degree crimp ledge in its sleeve for .38/.357 or 9MM. It roll crimps pretty well, but will not properly taper crimp.

    Your crimp is excessive.

    Back the die up in the lock ring so no crimping is going on. then seat some bullets. the back the seater stem way up so it will not touch the bullets and slowly screw the die body back down so the crimp ledge barely touches the case and just removes the bell.

    The finished round should look more like the Federal factory round, or this handloaded .38 Super round.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. matworz

    matworz Member

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    What WALKALONG said^^^... then AFTER you have the crimp all set up how you want, set the lock ring. Run the seated round back up into the die, and screw your seating stem BACK DOWN to just touch the bullet and lock it down. Your crimp will be set, and your seating depth will be good. That's the key to doing an "all in one" seat/crimp operation. Run a few through and double/triple check everything before you do big batches.
     
  24. Armymutt

    Armymutt Member

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    It looks like you're putting too much flare on the case. I had that issue when I first put in the Powderfunnel PTX. I just adjusted it for the minimum amount that would let me put the bullet on the case without it falling off and it works great. Use the piece that comes with the press - looks like an aluminum bar with a channel in it and a set screw on each end. I'll try to take a picture of mine this weekend. My rounds look pretty close to factory.
     
  25. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    For seating jacketed bullets in a rimless cartridge, I never bell or crimp and it makes life so simple.

    Evenly chamfer the inside of the case mouth, set the bullet on top of the case mouth once it's in the shell holder, and just seat. This provides the maximum obtainable degree of neck tension, and completely eliminates the need to bell and crimp. I've been seating like this for decades and you couldn't pay me to go back to the conventional method. And you'll never have to deal with or worry about neck tension issues that result from unintentional over belling or crimping.

    GS
     
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