Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

opinions on small 9mm pistols?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by tuj, Feb 5, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,368
    Boberg's all come with the same grip design...they are available in different colors.

    Since so few are in the publics hands, it may be awhile before we see aftermarket grips available. Wish Crimson Trace made some.....sure it's a matter of time.
     
  2. TonyT

    TonyT Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,353
    Location:
    Michigan
    I purchsed a Kahr PM-9 a number of years ago before the Ruger product was introduced . I carry it in a pocket holster. My PM-9 has been reliable and I can easilly place 7 shots into a ca 3 inch group at 7 to 10 yards.
     
  3. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    13,233
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    "The weight of the slide has nothing to do with recoil spring wear. The number of cycles of a spring is what causes wear."

    Okay, you talk to Karl. :) I thought he said he was a delicate balancing act to match the size/weight of the slide to the room available for the spring. Bigger, longer lasting spring takes up more space, so you need to design a larger slide, etc.

    I dunno, I only know what I read on the Rohrbaugh forum. And I've actually installed new springs in an R9 and it's a handful with the tolerances being so close.

    John
     
  4. WRGADog

    WRGADog Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    645
    Location:
    Brevard County, FL
    I own several small 9mm pistols,

    a Beretta Nano, Kahr PM9, Kimber Solo, and Walther PPS. They are all excellent firearms, reliable, accurate, easy to maintain. I rotate carrying each of the pistols, and wouldn't part with any of the pistols. My favorite is the PPS, but IMO it is a belt gun because of its weight. The PPS can be pocket carried with the six round mag, but again it is heavy. The Nano, PM9, and Solo are each easy to conceal and pocket carry using a DeSantis Nemisis holster. I have had no problems with any of the pistols and each has ~500 rounds down range.
     
  5. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,237
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I havent shot one but that Kimber Solo is one great looking gun. It is smaller in real life than the advertisements can relate.
     
  6. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,424
    Location:
    NC
    I totally agree on the Solo being a great looking gun. It is about the size of the Kahr PM9 but the frame is alloy, not plastic so it's a tad heavier. I also like the 1911 like controls (thumb safety).

    Sololeft.jpg
     
  7. tuj

    tuj Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,983
    Location:
    Houston
    I think I've narrowed it down to the 3913 and the CW9. Thoughts?
     
  8. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,007
    Location:
    Illinois
    I've made descisions based on controls - based on my own comfort level with the MOA.

    I looked at the S&W and Beretta in the 80s and really didn't like the slide mounted flip -up safety. I ended up getting an HK P7M8.

    OTOH - I know people who can't feel comfortable with a gun that doesn't have a safety on it - somehow the thought that the thing will go off with a simple pull of the trigger sends a chill down their spine.
     
  9. s9601694

    s9601694 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Houston
    Just wondering : why the cw9 and not the cm9?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. tuj

    tuj Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,983
    Location:
    Houston
    The CM9 seems a little on the 'too-small' size for me, the CW9 seems to be more the 'just-right' size.
     
  11. DFM914

    DFM914 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    55
    Small 9mm

    Beretta Nano gets my vote
     
  12. Deer_Freak

    Deer_Freak Member.

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    662
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Lots of people are mentioning guns that weigh 26 ounces or more. It is difficult to carry a gun that heavy unless you wear suspenders. I have a Ruger P95 that weighs 27 ounces empty. I prefer to carry the Ruger but the gun is just to big to carry all the time. In short order, you will start leaving the gun at home because it is an inconvenience.

    If you have to carry a gun outside the waistband sooner or later someone is going to see the gun. Then you could very well lose a good friend. People are going to ask you "why do you need a gun in my house or business?" You might want to just give up on the idea you can get by with one gun. You need a gun you can easily carry in your pocket and a gun with some size that is fun to shoot at the range. The larger gun can double as a carry gun when you go into areas where there is an elevated risk of a bad encounter.
     
  13. kokapelli

    kokapelli Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,625
    Location:
    Arizona
    I couldn't agree more and you have just described my routine.

    I almost always just pocket carry anymore.
     
  14. velojym

    velojym Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    617
    I carry a PC9 when I leave the XD at home, and it carries like it isn't even there. It's also nicely controllable with standard pressure 9mm ammunition and hasn't had a single hiccup in a few hundred rounds so far.
     
  15. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,007
    Location:
    Illinois
    The Rohrbaugh R9 in a Nemesis holster drops right in my Levis front pocket, it's 18 oz fully loaded with 7 rounds f 147gr ammo and I can hardly tell it's there.

    No problem getting into or out of a car, it just very unobtrusive.
     
  16. gotime242

    gotime242 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    562
    After going through 3 other carry guns, i'm absolutely happy with the CW9. I find it pretty perfect overall...
     
  17. KCSemiAutoBob

    KCSemiAutoBob Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Central Coastal CA
    my 2 cents worth...

    Based on personal experience, I can recommend the Kahr PM9. Micro pistols are very personal things.I carried a Keltec P11 for years. Reliable, but not really very satisfactory.
    Recently bought my Kahr PM9 after shooting a friend's PM9 and making ragged holes instead of ragged groups at 7 yards! That blew me away! It just fit me too well to ignore and there was one in the case available for purchase. Now more than 200 rounds through it and no problems whatsoever. I'm going to fit it with X-S Big Dot sight system for quick accuracy. Reports regarding the Kahr CW9 with conventional rifling are also encouraging, especially in price. :)
     
  18. groundhog34

    groundhog34 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Alabama
    I have had most of them the best BY FAR considering size, workmanship, reliability and accuracy is the Rorhbaugh, but be prepared to get off $1000.00+
     
  19. Soldiernurse

    Soldiernurse Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    [​IMG]

    Bersa BP9CC
    Caliber: 9MM
    Sights: RR: Glock/FT: Sig
    Barrel Length: 3.2"
    Overall Length: 6.35"
    Width: 0.94"
    Height: 4.8"
    Weight: 21.5oz
    Capacity: 8+1
    Finish: Matte Black
    Additional Features:

    • Loaded Chamber Indicator
    • MIL-1913 Picatinny Rail
    • Slide, Frame & Trigger Checkering

    Very Affordable!!!
     
  20. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,565
    Start doing drills on a shot clock and accounting for accuracy and account for the results and it will start to plummet. Even more so if you induce stress. The R9 is good at being small. That is about it. Yes its well made, sure it is mechanically more than accurate enough, however IMHO it has crossed the line of diminishing returns its so small. I certainly wouldn't want one as my primary carry gun. I don't think there is an R9 owner that would rather have one in an actual gun fight than a number of the other guns listed hear. That argument is of course one that can be made all the way up the size spectrum Thus, we seek to reach a balance between a useful gun and one that we can/will carry and hide comfortably all day. I think that balance falls up the spectrum from the R9. It just gives up too much in terms of capabilities. I've never seen one in a defensive pistol shooting class. There is a reason for that.

    Many (NOT ALL, for those getting ready to tell me off) R9 owners seem to be people with talisman syndrome. That is the idea that the gun is some kind of magic talisman whose presence alone keeps them safe. These people drop an R9 in the pocket and seem to think all is well. For most of them it maybe, in as much as they will never have to use the thing.

    The R9 might be a viable choice for a deep cover gun or a bug but it is a pretty poor primary carry gun IMHO. Many like that it is a 9x19 that can actually fit in pockets fairly well. However, I'm of the belief, which based on training and a fair amount testing with quantifiable feedback (i.e. shot timer and accuracy), as well as force on force training, that pocket carry is far from ideal. I wouldn't want my primary gun to be in a pocket in most situations. For me results vary dramatically based on the pockets in question but a reactive draw from the pocket is anywhere from slower to MUCH slower than drawing from my belt. In one such test with a pair of jeans that is typical of what I often wear I was 1.5 seconds from a random start to first shot on target at 3 yards from my belt with a shirt, sweater and coat (what I wear a lot in the winter here). I was 4.5 IIRC drawing from a pocket holster in out of my jeans. Force on force drills also dramatically highlighted some of the limitations of pocket carry.

    Pocket carry does have some advantages. It works very well when one can have their hand on the gun before hand, which in some situations one can do much more readily than with a gun on one's belt. It has some nice advantages but suffers badly in reactive drawing, which seems to me to be a relatively likely thing in a defensive situation. I tend to use pocket carry for a BUG or for select other times. Honestly though a gun that is small enough to put in a pocket is a gun that is also pretty easy to hide very well IWB.

    Beyond the limitations of pocket carry, the R9 its self offers far to many compromises. It is so small it is for many people a gun that is hard to shoot and run well, much like the LCP. Add to that a rather high bore axis (again not unlike the LCP) and it is made worse. Further it has controls that are not what I'd favor. The heal release is inferior to other styles of mag release, at least in terms of speed. It lacks a slide stop/release. This is not just a matter of reloads (I'd wager that many who port an R9 as a primary don't have a reload anyways), but also for clearing certain malfunctions. Some of the models don't even have sights. At certain distances that might not be much of an issue. However, I'm reminded of Larry Corriea's article "My gun fight." The jist of it is people imagine how they will use their gun defensively and in what type of situation and tend to ignore a lot of other real possibilities and the fact is we simply cannot know or control how it will go down if we are so unfortunate as to wind up needing to use our weapons in defense. I also do not like having a defensive weapon that varies as much in terms of controls from my other main defensive handguns as does the R9. Further, I'm not wild about its trigger compared to other guns mentioned in this thread.

    Take a shot timer, get off the square range, induce stress, and then shoot the R9 against some other guns, and I'm not talking about a glock 34, or even a 26, but guns like the Shield, PPS, Cw/P9, heck even the PM/CW9. Of those touting the R9, would you honestly pick it if you were going to have to defend yourself with a smaller single stack 9x19. I know I would so much rather have a PPS or the like.

    Lastly, the R9 begs the question of whether it is really much if any better than some of the .380 offerings that the same size or are even smaller, and of course notably cheaper in most cases. When you give terminal ballistics from those guns an honest look I think it is a legit question for people that have decided they will sacrifice a lot of capability for size and weight. Honestly I'd rather have a tuned up mustang or sig than an R9. They are better shooters IMHO/E. I'm not certain I'd be much better off with an R9 versus an LCP, truth be told. I'd suspect the extra $800-1K spent on ammo and training would be more likely to be outcome determinative. Of course just because a gun is more expensive doesn't mean one couldn't still spend the difference on training with the more expensive gun. But for some folks it probably does, and thus I mention it.

    The CM9/PM9 is about as small as I can go before I notice far too a great a drop off. Even that size gun is making some compromise. For a primary carry gun, I really think the shield, XDS, CW9, Walther PPS, etc, sized guns are about as small and as much compromise as I would care for. These guns can still be shot and run pretty well.

    In sum, we all make compromises with the guns we carry. Where we decide to draw the line between what is easy to carry and conceal and what is good for fighting with is a personal decision and one upon which reasonable people can disagree, even more so when they have differing situations. However, I feel the R9 give up way to much, and I c wouldn't recommend it to others. Even if it were the gun I had settled on I wouldn't recommend it without at least addressing some of the serious limitations. Of course I wonder how many people carrying one as a primary have really evaluated it with quantifiable feedback, under stress, doing force on force, etc.
     
  21. csd4682

    csd4682 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    78
    I have owned a cw9 and pm9 and the quality of the pm9 far exceeded the cw in evey way possible. I owned the cw first and then handled the pm and instantly realized why the pm cost more. If cost isnt too big of an issue, the pm9 in my opinion is a far better choice.
     
  22. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    13,233
    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    "Pocket carry does have some advantages."

    Yes, yes it does. That's likely why we're discussing "small 9mm pistols".

    I'd rather have a shotgun. :) My FNP-45 USG won't fit in my pocket either.
     
  23. 38Mike

    38Mike Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Kansas
    I recently bought a PF9 because I needed a CCW and wanted to stick to a low budget. I got a size 4 Remora holster for it and usually carry IWB just to the right of my belt buckle. Found some relaxed fit Wranglers that I can pocket carry in ( although the Remora is a little on the thick side ). I tried pocket carry with dress pants last night with no problems. This pistol really shines though with a Kangaroo holster. It's so thin and light you hardly notice it's there..

    My .02 worth :)

    Mike
     
  24. TarDevil

    TarDevil Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    NC Coast
    I just don't like most of the micro nines, but the Sig P290 really feels great. I like the DAO trigger for carrying without a safety, and it's heavy enough to soften some recoil. I think it will be my next carry purchase, but haven't shot it yet, though, so haven't reached a final verdict.
     
  25. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,565
    Perhaps I should have more clearly enumerated them, so as to make it more clear that pocket carry is, on a balance, inferior in most regards to belt carry.

    Carrying a very small gun on a belt IWB it tends to conceal as well or better than it does in a pocket, IME.

    Actually, its not. We are discussing them because the OP asked about small (which is of course relative) single stack nines. The OP has further clarified what he is looking for and doesn't seem interested in what I would call pocket nines based on the choices he is saying he is narrowed it down to. He has never once mentioned a desire to pocket carry, but has not expressly ruled it out. He has stated that he is not after something even as small as the PM/CM9 which is slightly larger than the R9 and about as big a gun as I would reasonably call a pocket gun. He stated in post #86

    He seems more interested in the next size up the spectrum, i.e. the CW9/PPS/Shield/etc sized guns. Some will say they pocket carry those guns, just like people say about the Glock 26. I still wouldn't say they are pocket guns for most folks.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page