Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police

[freedom_fighter777]

Video of Gestapo Cleveland Heights Police Terrorizing their Citizens. In the end they let me go with no charges filed and returned my gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpP9Bgqas-M

 

[whatever]

It seems like you were out looking for to cause a scene...why?

 

[lobo9er]

Well I dunno. I would say it looks like you're just trying to make a point. I try to avoid hassles, but more power to ya.

Honestly more people should start "undemonizing" guns.

 

[THE MACHINIST]

Hell yeah, it's your right, there are more armed citizens than police, so be proud that you stood up instead of being job scared, fear of being arrested, etc........ Always fight for your rights.and know your laws to the letter. Police only enforce, not make laws. It was kool you had the camera there though, cause they might have fabricated a story.

 

[meef]

It's generally been my experience that if you go looking for trouble, you will usually find it.

 

[lobo9er]

i usually dont even have to look i'm one of the lucky ones

 

[atomd]

It's funny how following the law 100% suddenly becomes "looking for trouble" when it's something you wouldn't do yourself.

This reminds me of those who said that certain rape victims had it coming because they "dressed too sexy" or other idiotic arguments like that. The law is the law period..end of story. It is black and white...cut and dry..however else you want to describe it. Your opinion is worth exactly nothing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[nc76]

your video doesn't work. Only sound and black. No video.

Why did you stop it at 8:12 and not let us hear the whole thing?

 

[2RCO]

Mr. Ponikvar--next time take a couple friends and have them film otherwise your video probably wouldn't be alot of help in your defense because the argument could always be made something was going on that couldn't be heard.

Just be careful and don't be stupid. I know OC is legal and am all for it. It certainly looks like you were expecting a confrontation and you got it. The big question here is did they really get a concerned citizen call?

Are you taking this to court?

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

While this doesn't strictly fall under the topics appropriate for the Activism section, I think it merits discussion as a RKBA advocacy technique.

I can appreciate the sentiment of the video and applaud someone actually going out and doing something rather than just grousing about it on the internet, however, the subject in the video pretty much undoes any potential positive actions by being beligerent and throwing around the "nazi Germany" nonsense. In the end, it was a net loss for the RKBA because perception is everything and the subject in the video failed in the regard.

 

[2RCO]

being beligerent and throwing around the "nazi Germany" nonsense.

Glad you said it Jorg--I didn't want to start the thread into lockdown mode.

 

[t_durden]

yes, go after the law enforcers, good idea. everyone knows how much control they have over the law and over societies hoplophobia. OC being legal or not, you know your going to run into some kind of trouble and you were clearly looking for it. going out and about your day lawfully carry open is different than going out looking for trouble.
in conclusion, thanks, but no thanks.

 

[AWorthyOpponent]

LOL, why would you go looking for trouble? I mean, don't get me wrong, you shouldn't have been stopped for the weapon if it is legal. You obviously knew that you "disturbed the peace" if the first thing you did was grab your camera. IDK...I don't buy this 100%

At least you just happened to be carrying all the documentation showing that you were at least partially right when the officer arrived.

IF all you were doing was open carrying, Thank You for exposing what really happened. But if you were just looking for a confrontation, as I think you were, sell your guns and move somewhere that you don't have to give the rest of us a bad name...we have enough issues to deal with trying to get others to accept the presence of firearms in their daily lives, let alone some know-it-all, negatively exploiting our rights.

 

[atomd]

I don't think there's any law against being belligerent or saying stupid things. I don't think there's a "win or lose" here...there's a right and wrong. The police were obviously WAY in the wrong. He could have been in a Nazi uniform waving a rebel flag while smoking a cigar and dancing a jig.....none of that matters one bit. He should have been treated the exact same way no matter what. The police aren't hired to tell us what is cool and what isn't or how nice we should be. They are hired to enforce laws.

While I wish he had worded some things differently, I don't think he had the chance to express much before a gun was pointed at him. Anything else is insignificant.

 

[atomd]

going out and about your day lawfully carry open is different than going out looking for trouble.

How exactly is walking down the street not going about one's day? How exactly is walking down the street "looking for trouble". Please explain.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

I don't think there's any law against being belligerent or saying stupid things.

Yet it can be even more damaging than breaking the law.

He could have been in a Nazi uniform waving a rebel flag while smoking a cigar and dancing a jig.....none of that matters one bit.

Like I said, perception is everything. In the end, how he presents himself when pulling this little stunt is ALL that matters. Everything else will be forgotten.

 

[Rockwell1]

Arguing with the police never goes well. No matter how well you present your argument the police will take it as an afront to their authority.

I'd ask if I was being detained,
I might ask why, and then I'd ask to speak to a lawyer and shut up.

The second or third time the city got sued they'd probably stop.

 

[Lou McGopher]

I think it was unnecessary for him to reference Nazi Germany in the video. The cops messing with you aren't going to care. They're not going to consider, "Hey, he's right. I am acting contrary to the principles of liberty. My treatment of this citizen is unjust and immoral." Anyone wanting to OC needs to remember that. Most cops aren't likely to care. They've got a job to do - a paycheck to collect. Be cordial and straightforward, and hope they act cordially and professionally. Save the analogies and philosophical grandstanding for later when you can be a little more articulate.

Now then, I'm thinking of OC'ing in this same area very soon, as it is very near me. The police need to get used to it. I've got video cameras and voice recorders. I would preferably like to enlist someone else to handle the videotaping. Awfully silly that such a thing would be necessary, but in Cleveland Hts, a confrontation with the police is pretty much a given. There are a lot of them, and they seem to have pretty fast response times, and people around here just aren't used to the idea of honest citizens being armed. Recording while OC'ing in this area may be necessary at first.

 

[kingpin008]

Not only are they not going to care, they're going to start thinking "this guy is out of control", which will give them all the more reason to detain you.

If you carry a gun, especially openly, you need to expect that at some point, you might get hassled because of it.

The real test is how well you keep your cool. I agree with Jorg and the rest - this particular incident ended up being 100% the opposite of how a proper open-carry awareness demonstration should have gone.

 

[bkjeffrey]

Good for you freedom fighter! Does anyone remember the Boston Tea Party? Our constitution was written by men who challenged the corrupt governments who persecuted our ancestors.

I can appreciate the sentiment of the video and applaud someone actually going out and doing something rather than just grousing about it on the internet

Me too.

The whole nazi thing is irrelevent in this case. Regardledss of the dialogue in the video, the point was made, and proven, simply by the actions of the police and the suspect.

actions speak louder than words.

 

[kingpin008]

actions speak louder than words.

Agreed. And as a second amendment supporter and gun enthusiast, if I was a witness to what happened on the video, I would have shaken my head and discounted the man on the ground as a fool, a loon, or both.

I can appreciate action - we should all be so bold and willing to stand up and make our position known. However, as others have mentioned earlier in this thread - we are at a disadvantage here in regards to public perception and opinion of gun owners and our rights. Resisting the police by becoming irate and hollering about Nazi's isn't going to make anyone feel better about your mental state.

And by the way, likening this gentleman's actions to those of the participants of the Boston Tea Party is ludicrous. The Tea Party protestors were doing so in response to a crushing inequity of power - the individual in the video essentially purposefully provoked a confrontation while engaged in a legal activity (OC'ing). hardly the same thing, IMHO.

 

[Birdmang]

I have really fast and reliable internet and this video wont load/takes forever. I don't understand! ha ah

 

[bkjeffrey]

we are at a disadvantage here in regards to public perception and opinion of gun owners and our rights

Agreed. Public perception is what we seem to be at war with. I stand corrected.

And by the way, likening this gentleman's actions to those of the participants of the Boston Tea Party is ludicrous

I believe you are correct here too. These are two COMPLETELY different scenarios. But the drivers of the actions in both cases have a common relativity, In my opinion.

 

[kingpin008]

On the upside, I'd love to hear what the chief of police in that area has to say about the fact that the female officer seems to be completely ignorant that OC is indeed legal.

I'd think that misinformation like that might end up netting them a lawsuit at some point if it's allowed to continue.

Of course, the OP is too busy bickering with the officers to get any of their names on tape. If we had names, we might be able to use this event to our advantage with a letter-writing campaign to request some officer re-education.

 

[bkjeffrey]

On the upside, I'd love to hear what the chief of police in that area has to say about the fact that the female officer seems to be completely ignorant that OC is indeed legal.

Great point! I never thought of that.