Quantcast

Oregon Cops confiscate man's guns: he wants them back!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by harmonic, Mar 12, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    I'm not sure he has any legal recourse outside employment law, but the cops need to think twice about trying to get around Constitutional protections by using the mental health laws. If the guy is a real danger the hold does NOTHING to keep him from coming right back out and shooting down some people. NOTHING. If the guy isn't a danger then you've just put a sane man through hell and possibly created a killer where there wasn't one before. All around, a disgusting performance by the boys in blue.
     
  2. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    if a psch eval made you a killer then you were a few fries short of a happy meal going in
     
  3. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    i don't think there is one proscribed trigger for the psych hold but rather its based on a number of factors. in va at least you get to go before a judge if you fight it. and i think the term "probable cause" belongs to another type of legal event
     
  4. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,957
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Semantics. If not "probable cause", then one should have SOMETHING, not just conjecture. Put yourself in the victim's place. What would you expect the police to "have" before they lock YOU up?
     
  5. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    a credible witness statement from someone without an axe to grind preferably several. some type of evidence/behavior to substantiate the behavior. preferably several of both. even more preferable before anyone gets hurt. i encourage the folks i get involved with to go voluntarily. it works out better for several reasons. not least amongst them the fact that you can truthfully answer no if asked " were you ever involuntarily committed. i appeal to that lil voice that tells em that no they are not crazy. that all they have to do is answer a few questions maybe go back on their meds and they will be home in a jiffy. the ones that delude themselves go willingly secure in their own sanity. someday i'll get a guy like this one . one who gets to go home. hasn't happened yet though. i don't have a vested interest in them being locked up my only interest is protecting them and everyone else. this kinda nonsense is why o got the vest. one time at the hospital a cop noticed my vest and asked me about it. i told him what i was doing his reply was "damn good idea" it might surprise you how squirrely some folks get. and how fast.
     
  6. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    oh yea in order to sober/clean me up two young ladies took me to the hotel silly. some kinda fear of me offing myself. had i not agreed to voluntary assistance i would have been held anyway. and i was disarmed as well. so i'm not speculating outa some commitment to an ethereal political dream. i speak from experience both m,ine and a bunch of other folks. not all good experiences. nothin like a guy sweet talking his way past the shrinks and going home to call his mom tell her hes gonna shoot himself and get there with his 80 year old mom in time to hear the shot and watch how it affects her to watch him with the blood pulsing out of him to take it outa some sophmoric political exercise into real life well in that case death
     
  7. veter308

    veter308 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    The SWAT team left the area after initial contact was made. Plain clothes Detectives then interviewed this guy about the concerns of his behavior during which time he "agreed" to have his guns taken into safe keeping while he was taken in for a quick medical evaluation. He knew he could get his guns back and that they were not seized from him. No SWAT or threatening officers involved in the interview as some have mentioned in this thread. And he got this guns back when he asked.
     
  8. Eagles6

    Eagles6 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    194
    Very scary. What's going to happen once the federal gubmint has all of your medical records?
    Jimmy was treated for depression after a divorce or death of a loved one or a job loss.
    Bobby has "anger" issues.
    Tommy takes medication that might cause issues.
    Sally is paranoid because she fears for her safety.
    It ain't that far fetched folks, just ask a Vet that's had any counseling for PTSD or some such.
     
  9. Guns and more

    Guns and more member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,929
    So how did the police know he had just purchased firearms and what kind?
     
  10. danez71

    danez71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,531
    Location:
    CAAZ;TX?
    I tend to think the journalists nowadays are more concerned with putting out a story 1st and accuracy 2nd. They dont have much to loose.... or tend to loose nothing when they inaccuratly report.

    Police, on the other hand, have to worry about making false reports/statements.

    I dont mean this to say reporters are all dishonest etc. Just saying I generally take the police's side of the story on something like this when there is little specific info given.

    I know of no back ground checks, lie detector tests, character checks etc for reporters as there is with cops to get hired. While not fool proof, something is better than nothing.
     
  11. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    3,151
    Location:
    Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia
    In Oregon FFL's have to report all firearm sales to their local and state PD.

    http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/ORSL.pdf

    All dealers, pawnbrokers or otherwise must keep a record of
    every handgun sold. This record shall contain the time, date and place
    of the sale or trade, the name of the salesperson making the sale or
    trade, the make, model and manufacturer's number on the handgun.
    The purchaser must sign his name and affix his address to the register.
    Thumbprints are taken. The purchaser must present clear evidence of
    his identity.

    A copy of the record must be mailed to the local police and state
    police on the day of the sale for a record check.

    A gun dealer shall request by telephone that the Dept. of State
    Police conduct a criminal history record check on the purchaser. The
    Dept. of State Police shall immediately or by return call determine
    whether the purchaser is qualified to complete the purchase. The
    fee for the criminal history record check may not exceed $10. The
    handgun must be unloaded when delivered.
     
  12. Mike J

    Mike J Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,553
    Location:
    Georgia
    I am interested to see if more information becomes available. We just don't know enough to make a judgement.
    danez-I don't believe the police are any more credible than reporters or anyone else. I have known of enough corrupt & incompetent policemen to be as distrustful of them as I am of the general poplulation. Also before anyone says I am slamming the police, I do know there are some good people there trying to do a difficult job. But to think that someone is telling the truth just because they wear a badge is foolish.
     
  13. Ruggles

    Ruggles member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    334
    "I am interested to see if more information becomes available. We just don't know enough to make a judgement. "

    Truest thing said so far. No way we have all the facts yet thru the first wave of media stories.
     
  14. Guns and more

    Guns and more member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,929
    Thank you.
    Here in Florida, I believe that information is not shared. The FFL keeps it in his bound book, and the NCIS check only wants to know if it is a long gun or handgun. That's enough.
     
  15. jaholder1971

    jaholder1971 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,302
    Location:
    thehighroad.us
    I'm less inclined to believe he has a case against the cops as opposed to his employer.

    It's obvious that someone told the cops some real whoppers to get this type of response and since his employer's the only ones who have an interest in making him out to be deranged this trail won't be very long.

    3-4 hours for a psyche evaluation? Considering it probably took the facility an hour to check him in and 2 hours to do the discharge, the mental health experts figured out his detention was BS in an hour or less. Give them credit for seeing this for what it was and getting him out of there quickly.
     
  16. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    It's obvious that someone told the cops some real whoppers to get this type of response and since his employer's the only ones who have an interest in making him out to be deranged this trail won't be very long.


    depends on what he said or did at work he wouldn't be the first person i've seen run mouth faster than brain while getting in trouble at work. as of yet we are working on imagination rather than facts and typically one imagines that which best fits his own preconceptions and agenda
     
  17. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Of course. Otherwise you're left in the uncomfortable position of hauling someone away under force of arms without ever reading them their rights, charging them with a crime or having them appear before a magistrate. If they come quietly you can pretend it isn't a gross violation of the Constitution.

    Unless attempted suicide is illegal, then no officer has any business doing anything to stop it. If it's illegal, then due process and a proper arrest is the course to take. To bypass all of that and arrest people without charge is a gross violation of the oath. It's not the job of LEO's to "help people out" or to "make people better."

    In this case, the only question they should have been asking is did he do anything illegal. If some source gave them sufficient evidence to arrest him and obtain a warrant, then they should have done that. If not, then there's no justification to act. Instead we find the LEO's scanning the man's arms purchases and misusing the psych hold procedure to get around their lack of a warrant for arrest or search.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2010
  18. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    Of course. Otherwise you're left in the uncomfortable position of hauling someone away under force of arms without ever reading them their rights, charging them with a crime or having them appear before a magistrate. If they come quietly you can pretend it isn't a gross violation of the Constitution.


    um i don't carry arms when i go talk to these folks nor do i have any kind of governmental shield or immunity. and i can only force them to go if they are WAY out there. and that means calling the cops which is my last resort

    Unless attempted suicide is illegal, then no officer has any business doing anything to stop it. If it's illegal, then due process and a proper arrest is the course to take. To bypass all of that and arrest people without charge is a gross violation of the oath. It's not the job of LEO's to "help people out" or to "make people better."


    actually where i live a great deal of time and effort is spent to help folks. especially since the ones who let folks know usually don't really wanna die. they just feel trapped and are using a permanant solution to a temporary problem. a truly determined person just does it and we find the corpse or usually the wife and kids do. and they aren't real concerned about someone's "sophmoric political exercise " they just get to deal with finding mommy/daddy/child . reality is harsh especially on the kids but even moreso on the parents for some reason.

    misusing the psych hold procedure
    how so? in this case it worked just as its supposed to. (assuming he doesn't go postal) he went peacefully was released and got his guns back.its set up to provide some checks and balances in the arena of balancing safety and rights
     
  19. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    and generally the last thing you want to do to someone in a desperate position is arrest em. often even when that becomes required the charges are dropped or reduced if the person makes an effort to get help or even sometimes where the court decides they really can't get help.. or at least thats been my experience ymmv
     
  20. zootsuit002

    zootsuit002 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    29
    "Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said police generally try to return found, stolen or seized property to its rightful owner as soon as possible and have a procedure for doing so, to ensure that there are not ownership or legal issues. If the property was seized as evidence, courts have the final say on when it can be returned"

    I was recently stationed out in OR and found a North American Arms Mini revolver, to make a long story short I turned it in to the police hoping that they would run the # and return it to its rightful owner. The furthest that they went was to check the # against stolen and send it off to be destroyed. If I had any inclination of the immorality with which the police department would handle the situation I would have checked the # against stolen myself and dropped it into my own safe. Here again the short version, THIS STATEMENT WAS A BLATANT LIE they make no attempt what so ever to return property to its rightful owners.
     
  21. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    is oregon or medford one of thoses areas that mandates guns be destroyed?
     
  22. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Why not just leave people alone?
     
  23. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    you know i'm inclined to go that way. but there is a school of thought that says folks in a mental illness crisis deserve a second shot. there is a study of folks who survived serious suicide attempts, iirc they were survivors of the goldengate bridge. their thoughts and lives after elevate this debate from a student union debate over latte and beer to some pretty serious stuff for them and their families
     
  24. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,033
    Location:
    Johnson County Texas
    I hope this man lawyers up and winds up owning the City and fires the PD.
     
  25. ConstitutionCowboy

    ConstitutionCowboy member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    3,230
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I'd still like to know if the SWAT team had a warrant.

    Woody
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice