Oregon members: SB 335 to restrict CHL

Discussion in 'Legal' started by unixguy, Jan 26, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. unixguy

    unixguy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    This is a recreation of an earlier thread that was mistakenly merged with the Washington thread.

    ************************
    OFF ALERT 1/25/05

    GUN BAN HEARING SCHEDULED
    As we predicted, Ginny Burdick has scheduled hearings on her gun ban bill at the Multnomah County Courthouse.
    As you know, this bill (Senate Bill 335) would make you a criminal if you happened to show up at the same place where school children had gathered for a "field trip."
    The hearing is scheduled to start at 8:30 on Friday Jan. 28th.
    The exact location is listed below.
    The hearing will be held at the courthouse to dissuade as many CHL holders as possible from coming, since they will be prohibited from entering the building if they are in possession of their legally carried firearms.
    We fully expect this to be a dog and pony show for the media, with the supporters of the bill getting the most favorable treatment.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________
    Date: Friday-January 28
    Time: 8:30 A.M.
    Location: Multnomah County Courthouse Room #602 1021 SW 4th Avenue Portland, Oregon
    Public Hearing and Possible Work Session
    SB 335
    Allows school district boards to prohibit persons with concealed handgun licenses from carrying firearms on school property.
    ________________________________________________________________________________________
    For regular updates on times and meeting locations click here .
    In this case the committee you will want to watch is "Judiciary."
    If you intend to go to the hearing and testify, make sure you look for a sign up sheet when you enter the room.
    Also, be advised that Burdick would almost certainly NOT have scheduled the hearing unless she had a promise from the other Democrats on the committee that the bill would pass out of committee. So any testimony you plan to give will be for the benefit of the media only.
    Once again, the members of the committee are:

    Ginny Burdick, Chair (The sponsor of the bill, although it will appear as "Sponsored By the Judiciary Committee) 503-986-1718
    Charles Starr, Vice-Chair (A reliable pro-gun vote) 503-986-1713
    Roger Beyer (A strong supporter of gun rights.) 503-986-1709
    Floyd Prozanski (A militant anti-gun extremist) 503-986-1704
    Charlie Ringo (A regular anti-gun voter) 503-986-1717
    Vicki L Walker (A militant anti-gun extremist) 503-986-1707
    Doug Whitsett (A newly elected Republican who answered our survey 100%) 503-986-1728

    ********************************

    I've called Sen. Burdick's office to ask why this legislation is being introduced, and both times all I got back was "The Oregon School Board Association passed a resolution calling for this sort of legislation, so that's what we're doing."
     
  2. USP45usp

    USP45usp member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Messages:
    333
    Both Oregon and Washington are getting hit hard this year. I can't go to the hearing (only those who don't work for a living because they are on welfare will be able to go) but you did notice that she's having it in a "off limits" building since it holds the federal courts as well.

    This one will be close because she will use the "it's for the children" :cuss: . The AWB that she's going to introduce may be close also :(.

    Wayne
     
  3. Carlos

    Carlos Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,196
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I wondered what happened to that thread.

    Wayne, I'm going to try real hard to make it tomorrow. I work two blocks from the Courthouse.

    If I can go, I'll report. Would like a chance to get to say something. Ginny Burdick is definitely the enemy of the law abiding gunowner.

    The Oregonian (much surprise) has reported that this is "feel good" legislation and basically useless.
     
  4. Zip06

    Zip06 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    393
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    For The Oregonian to say an anti-gun bill is goofy is akin to Bill Clinton endorsing fidelity to your spouse.
     
  5. Carlos

    Carlos Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,196
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I was surprised as you.

    Well of course, the demands of the job didn't allow me one minute away from the office, including lunch or breaks of any kind. Pisses me off.

    I hope Brian can report on what happened. I can only hope I catch something on the news.

    I really dislike Burdick and her ilk.
     
  6. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    Happy Valley, Oregon
    Well, :cuss: !

    I missed this thread until just now! Any word on how it went? Anyone we should be contacting in the next couple days?

    Ginny Burdick! :cuss: :cuss: :barf:
     
  7. Shweboner

    Shweboner Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    Newberg, OR
    Well, I went...

    Here's how it went down.

    I arrived on time at 8:30am
    Signed in and took a seat... then watched the room fill up with people equally from both sides ( one look and you could probably guess which side they were on )
    The part that pissed me off were the stickers that read "Safe to Learn" Schools are just as safe now as they were in the last 15 years of CHL, this one truly is a solution in search of a problem.

    so the first 2 hours was a dicussion between the comittee and judges from Wash, Clack, Mult. counties as they all talked about how great they were and all of the wonderful things they have accomplished for us. Mainly talked about programs they have implemented to 'help' drug addicts and the mentally ill.

    This was the first time this sort of hearing has been held outside of the capitol, something new for this legislative session. Which I think explains the BS session in the beginning.

    So finally on the the meat and potatoes of the whole thing...

    Arguments in favor went first, filled with the usual sort. Sheriffs, District Atty's, Sch. Board members, etc. As they all spoke I thought we'd need some sick bags... All the while the comittee listened intently nodding their heads at the testimony.
    I believe that it was the DA for Mult. Co. who said that he attributes the fact that a CHL holder hasn't gone on a rampage in a school, was luck, or 'happenstance' So basically we are all ticking time bombs, not law abiding people.

    On to arguments in opposition:

    While we all spoke, The comittee was barely listening, talking amongst themselves, getting coffee or going to the bathroom or whatever. I defintely got the feeling that they could give a crap about our point of view.

    By the time I got up, I had changed my 'speech' a few times (so many had gone ahead of me I didnt want to repeat the same stuff) when I got up there I forgot half the things I was going to say and.. I may have borderline choked. It was a very uncomfortable situation. Sitting across from 7 :evil: senators who most likely didnt like me and thought I was nuts.

    I think I forgot my public speaking class :confused: I dont mind public speaking, But I do better standing up, I felt like I was being punished or something sitting in that chair. But I made my points and got it out.

    My goal now is to attend as many of these hearings as possible (gun-related or not) So I can brush up on my skills.

    On another note. The NRA rep. for Oregon... Did NOT impress me. Also there was NO SHOWING from any other gun rights group (OFF, GOA, etc) nobody, we were definitely thrown to the wolves. This will most likely make it through, but we can still fight it.

    ~Brian
     
  8. unixguy

    unixguy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    I wasn't able to make it either, I had hoped to be able to prepare some remarks last night and be there, but work also interfered for me.

    Did you feel both sides were given a fair amount of time? Were there any arguments (from either side) that were well presented or "new"?
    Did the pro-gun side focus on real information, or just remind the senators that we'll remember how they vote on this bill?

    How about media-- what sort of media representation was there?

    Thanks for being there and representing us!
     
  9. Gray Peterson

    Gray Peterson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,548
    Location:
    Lynnwood, Washington
    OFF didn't show up?
     
  10. Shweboner

    Shweboner Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    Newberg, OR
    Both sides got an equal amount of time.

    The arguments from both sides were about what you would expect.

    Not sure on media coverage, at one point there were 4 cameras in there, I know at least one of them was recording for the courthouse. The other three were not identifyable as being with any particular news service.

    And if OFF was there they didn't make it well known.
    Something else I will point out, there were no 'regular ppl' there supporting it, arguments in favor were coming from 'politicians' (sheriffs, DAs, board members, etc.) So basically it was the State vs. the People.

    What really got me was that when our side spoke of self-defense, there were snickers and laughs in the audience. I said to a woman next to me, "Not all of us are senators, we dont have panic buttons and instant police response. Nor do we all live or work in the best areas, self defense is a real issue for most people in the real world. This is something you wont understand until you've been a victim" I doubt I got to her, shes just a sheeple girl living in a sheeple world. baaa baaaa baaa baaaa guns are baaaaaad baaaa baaa bbaa


    Well Im sure you guys didnt have to be there to know the kind of things that went on. Same old stuff
     
  11. Zip06

    Zip06 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    393
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Brian, at the hearing did anyone mention that inspite of the fact that there has been no incident of a CHL holder presenting any firearm problem at a school there have been incidents of non-CHL citizens showing up on school grounds with firearms and presenting problems to include the discharge of weapons on school grounds and in school buildings?

    I know the hearings were for media benefit only but ...


    Good report.
     
  12. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    Happy Valley, Oregon
    So where does this go from here?
     
  13. unixguy

    unixguy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    I think the next move on this bill is up to Sen. Burdick.

    O.F.F. said that the committee ignored the normal procedures for legislation ("normal procedures" being: notifying the committee of the meeting before notifying the "special interest groups" and allow the committee to vote on some changes to the bill before presenting it to the public).

    What recourse is there for when that sort of thing happens? Can legislators be forced to follow the procedures? Is it common for procedures to be ignored?

    Edited for clarity
     
  14. Zip06

    Zip06 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    393
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Burdick is a senator so the bill eventually has to be referred to the House. The House killed it the last two times it was submitted. It should get pretty well hammered there again. Everyone should email their Representative if they have not already done so.
     
  15. Shweboner

    Shweboner Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    Newberg, OR
    Brian, at the hearing did anyone mention that inspite of the fact that there has been no incident of a CHL holder presenting any firearm problem at a school there have been incidents of non-CHL citizens showing up on school grounds with firearms and presenting problems to include the discharge of weapons on school grounds and in school buildings?


    Not that I recall, there were two CHL incidents mentioned:

    1. A night janitor left a backpack containing his CCW in a service elevator, it was found by a staff member. He was fired. No kids were around, no threats made, just an idiot leaving his gun in an elevator.

    2. A mother attending a field trip to a museum was carrying (CHL) when passing through the metal detector at the museum it became known that she carried. Again, no threats made, no one in danger, it just was known that she carried.

    this was it. No one could give an example of why this was necessary. only the just in case theory.


    ~Brian
     
  16. unixguy

    unixguy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    And now this...

    http://www.katu.com/stories/74567.html

    Oregon Capitol security tightening mulled by lawmakers

    By CHARLES E. BEGGS
    Associated Press Writer

    SALEM, Ore. - Legislative leaders called for improving security at the Capitol on Monday after police arrested a man who burst into the Senate chamber with a knife, held it to his chest and demanded to see the governor.

    It was the first time in recent memory that someone took a weapon into the Capitol and threatened to use it, even if it was against himself.

    The public has long enjoyed nearly unfettered access to the Capitol, even after the Sep. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

    But that may change after Monday's incident, in which Boyd A. Owens, 54, of Salem ran into the Senate chamber carrying a butcher knife with a blade about 10 inches long.

    The Senate hadn't yet begun meeting.

    Owens, who has a criminal record, approached the front desk holding the knife to his chest and yelling obscenities, said Senate Secretary Judy Hall, the Senate's top staff member.

    The Capitol's closed-circuit television system showed Owens as he shouted and gesticulated wildly.

    Several minutes of the footage were broadcast on Oregon TV stations. Owens' words weren't audible because the Capitol TV's audio was switched off.

    State Police Maj. Dan Durbin said Owens demanded to speak with the governor.

    A SWAT team hostage negotiator spoke with Owens, who surrendered after about an hour.

    He was charged criminal mischief, menacing and disorderly conduct and taken to Salem Hospital for a mental evaluation.

    Police said there were no injuries in the incident.

    Owens' motives were unclear. State criminal records show past convictions for drunken driving, assault, illegal drug possession and theft.

    The incident occurred on the same day that NAMI, a major mental health advocacy organization, put up displays and held a news conference at the Capitol on its legislative goals.

    Legislative leaders convened an emergency meeting on Monday to discuss ways to improve security.

    Senate President Peter Courtney, D-Salem, and House Speaker Karen Minnis, R-Wood Village, said the State Police has been asked for recommendations to improve Capitol security.

    "I have been concerned about security in this building for some time. This incident demonstrates a critical need to review our security procedures," Minnis said.

    Courtney said 18 states have metal detectors in their Capitol buildings, and Oregon may have to do the same.

    "Obviously, this is a dose of reality," Courtney said. "We have tried to provide as much access as possible. This is very serious, this could have been a real tragedy.

    "We will be discussing all forms of security," he said.

    Besides legislative offices, the Capitol houses the main offices of the governor, secretary of state and state treasurer.

    The only checks now made are searches of purses, briefcases and the like during major events such as gubernatorial inaugurations.

    Although the public can freely walk around the Capitol during the day, access at night and weekends requires special key cards, which are also needed to use the basement parking garage.

    Those steps were taken after the 2001, attacks, along with restricting parking in the front of the building.

    Sen. Vicki Walker, D-Eugene, said she had raised the issue of Capitol security a year ago with legislative officials and was told installing metal detectors would be expensive.

    "I'm here to protect my safety and the safety of my staff," she said. "If that man had had a gun he could have started shooting" before any security could have been called, she said.


    Courtney said he was saddened that access to the premier government building in the state would have to be restricted.

    "Perhaps all of our lives have changed in this building," he said.

    (Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    **************************

    My wife told me that she saw a clip on the news of a legislator expressing concern about the event, and that he'd be getting his concealed handgun license "so that he could be safe at work". Unfortunately I do not have a link or references (or even a name) at this time. Still looking for those.

    EDIT: Sen. Gary George (R) of Newberg is the legislator who is looking into getting his own concealed handgun. Way to go! (The news clip didn't actually show him making the statement-- the talking head reported that he's making those plans.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2005
  17. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,676
    Yeah, you really need metal detectors to find the crazy guy holding the 10 inch butcher knife to his chest.

    Then perhaps she should get a CCW permit and carry a gun, no? Yeah, that's too simple

    Sheesh
     
  18. Big Mike

    Big Mike Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Panhandle, FL
    Yeah all this stuff is frustrating to see here. I hope the House takes it down in flames. I emailed my Senator and approach it from the other angle, that I want him to begin considering reciprocity with other states (holding my breath). Hearings like this are a collosal waste of time, especially when there

    The republic is to ensure that basic needs are met. Why would I want to be in an outing with my child at school and not be armed? Hell, I want every parent to be armed when we're all in public.

    Down her in So. Oregon, its a different world than what's north of Lane County though...pretty gun friendly counties and towns (we don't count Ashland).

    I went to OFF's website and I am not sure how much of a lobby is there, maybe I need to read/research it more.

    I'll be watching this...Mike
     
  19. unixguy

    unixguy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Wow, you got fast results. :) HB 2456 doesn't just grant reciprocity, it honors all other concealed permits/licenses from other states.

    Sponsored by Representative DALLUM; Representatives ANDERSON,
    BOQUIST, BUTLER, FLORES, HANNA, KITTS, KROPF, KRUMMEL,
    WHISNANT, Senator FERRIOLI

    http://www.leg.state.or.us/05reg/measures/hb2400.dir/hb2456.intro.html
     
  20. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    Happy Valley, Oregon
    Unixguy-

    Am I reading the last half of that incorrectly, or does it allow CCW holders to carry in court facilities? :confused:
     
  21. unixguy

    unixguy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Messages:
    184
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Stickjockey-- I'm not a lawyer, but based on my reading of the law and from what recall of my training:

    Courthouses are legal, unless there is a very specificallly worded notice on every single entry of the courthouse saying that concealed handguns are not allowed. The wording is specified by law, and if that notice isn't on every single entrance, the notice is invalid.

    Where I get fuzzy (at the moment) is if concealed carry is legal in the individual court rooms. I seem to recall hearing/reading that concealed carry is left up to the discretion of the individual judge of that court. (Don't worry, if I ever have to go to court or get called for jury duty, I'll double check before I go in.)

    Why does that raise a concern for you?
     
  22. Big Mike

    Big Mike Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Panhandle, FL
    That was fast :p .

    Seriously, I have no problem with Oregon taking this route. It could be the first in the steps that will allow other states to recognize Oregon, thereby extending the reach of where the Oregon permit is valid. I'll be watching this closely! Thanks for the link, Mike
     
  23. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    Happy Valley, Oregon
    Unix-

    My only concern is that I was unclear on the meaning. I was under the impression that the powers that be were pretty adamant about not allowing concealed carry in courthouses.

    The more places we can carry, the better, I say.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice