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Original Black Talon ammo

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by oldman1946, Dec 6, 2009.

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  1. oldman1946

    oldman1946 Member

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    I recently came into ownership of several hundred rounds of the original Black Talon ammo in both .40 cal, .45acp, 9mm and .357 mag.

    Has anyone got any experience with this type ammo? A friend passed away and his family gave me his stash of Black Talon ammo. I have heard and read that it is very good ammo for personal defense but have not had any personal experience with it. The lack of personal experience did not keep me from accepting over 2,000 rounds of it for free.

    I just would like to know how others feel it performs.
     
  2. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

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    because of goverment pressure to stop producing the "cop killer" bullets, winchester stopped producing them. Remingtons Golden sabers are essentially their new incarnation. Good enough bullets if they have been stored well, people are paying crazy amounts for them for their reputation, but I dont see the point... cant complain about what has been given to you... you could make some money on that stash... BTW...
     
  3. essayons21

    essayons21 Member

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    My understanding is that it is no different than standard self-defense rounds of the era. Comparable to early Federal Hydrashok. The teflon coating was designed to aid feeding, and had no impact on terminal ballistics. I still have a box given to me by my uncle, I'm keeping it as a curiosity.

    If your stash is still in original boxes, I would keep it or sell it on Gunbroker. It will probably be somewhat collectible someday.
     
  4. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    OMG!!! Not the cop-killers!!!

    I would keep half of them as novelties, and sell the other half for a ridiculously high price on gunbroker. Then use the money to acquire some of today's finer self defense rounds.
     
  5. Samgotit

    Samgotit Member

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    ^ This. Sell it to mall ninjas on Gunbroker for an inflated price.

    This round was relabeled and, reportedly, improved slightly by Winchester. The scary black coating, Lubalox, was removed and the round is simply called Ranger SXT or T series. The retail boxes now are labeled "Law Enforcement" although it's readily available to the general public.

    As part of the folklore, many claim SXT is short for 'Same eXact Thing'.
     
  6. 84B20

    84B20 Member

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    I had them years ago when I lived in California, had a CCW and with all the hysteria surrounding them I decided with the courts the way they were going to abandon the use. I did, however test fire a round in a 55 gallon barrel of water to see the effect. Here is the shot I saved.
     

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  7. geronimo509

    geronimo509 Member

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    You could always shoot and carry every Black Talon you have, Except save ONE round and sell it individually on gunbroker(I think) and make an unbelievable amount of money(that you will never get). :evil:



    ps. Caution should be used and I am not to be held liable for anything.

    anyone remember that old thread:D
     
  8. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    They are very good like.....every other premium JHP round from that timeframe.

    Winchester repackaged them and sold them as Rangers. Most of their value lies in their notoriety.
     
  9. Avenger29

    Avenger29 Member

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    Sell it for a healthy profit. It's nothing special, but people that don't know any better will pay a premium for it. I wouldn't be suprised if you could get a buck a round for it.

    Buy some modern JHP ammunition. It's better.
     
  10. chuckusaret

    chuckusaret member

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    I have a 20 round box of .40 cal Black Talons I believe I bought in 1992 and I also have a few boxes of Ranger SXT's or the
    “Same eXact Thing” as Black Talons without the black tip.
     
  11. Kashtin

    Kashtin Member

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    I've got a bunch of old S&W Nyclad stuff. That was the original 'evil black bullet', designed for nothing but the 'teflon' coating being able to pierce bullet proof vests. (Yeah, riiiiiiiiight.)

    If it looks different, the anti's will jump on it as a rallying point.
     
  12. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    I'm pretty sure I read way back in one o' Ayoobs books that the Black Talon actually penetrated too deeply before expanding. One of the changes made to the Ranger T/SXT etc was to have it expand earlier.

    If you do a search on YouTube (Black Talon vs. Ranger etc) you'll probably find more than 1 video where both rounds are fired in various substances and compared. I've seen a number of 'em, and if sharp edges are what scares ya, the Ranger actually looked "scarier" than the Black Talon (in the videos I saw).

    Been kinda collecting SD ammo lately-bought some Rangers on Ammuniton to Go (when he lowered his price from obscene to merely ridiculous).
    Comparing the opening on the ends of various ammo, it looks like Winchester and Remington Golden Sabers have 'bout the smallest openings of the various stuff I've seen, if your gun is affected by that sort of thing.

    'Course, I buy only stuff in 50 round boxes-I ain't paying what the 20/25 round box makers are asking for their stuff! :cuss:
     
  13. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    I'd definitely sell it.

    I couldn't shoot it knowing it is worth $1/pop, and I could sell it and get two or three times more modern/better ammo with the proceeds.
     
  14. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Can I have a box in 9mm? :)
     
  15. hometheaterman

    hometheaterman Member

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    If you want to sell any let me know.
     
  16. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    [1] Black Talon was good ammunition in its day.

    [2] Since then, there have been some considerable advances in bullet design and technology. So the Black Talons probably aren't as good as the best of today's offerings, like HSTs.

    [3] In the meantime, it's my understanding that Black Talons have become sort of a collector's item. You might want to check current prices on GunBroker.

    [4] So sell some to buy more modern self defense ammunition and keep the rest for collector interest.
     
  17. kanook

    kanook Member

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    I currently carry and use it for hunting and SD. When it was new I tried it for my 357 and was pleased so bought about 500 rds. I haven't had that many critters get in my sights yet.
     
  18. mchaley

    mchaley Member

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    I heard that some autos like these rounds better because of the Teflon coating. I don't know much about these rounds so I'm not even sure if they HAVE a Teflon coating.

    If they do, the coating can make loading easier. That's what I've gathered from my friend who -only- fires Black Talons from one of his 1911s.

    I also heard that Winchester came out with the SXT's and that they stand for "Same Xact Thing" ;) Needless to say, I hear they're pretty close to the BT's.
     
  19. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    IIRC, it's a moly coating, and it does reduce friction.

    Not enough to matter. The SXT's are just the Black Talons, without the 'black'. They slap the 'law enforcement ammunition' title on it, and suddenly they're not so evil. :rolleyes:
     
  20. mchaley

    mchaley Member

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    Does the coating help increase muzzle velocity?
     
  21. svaz

    svaz Member

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    The big hoopla I remember was that the "talons" caused severe lacerations in the temporary stretch cavity (in addition to the whole getting shot thing) thereby making your assailant bleed out faster. Gimmicky if you ask me, but they did feed well in my Hi-Power.
     
  22. Leanwolf

    Leanwolf Member

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    I bought five boxes, 100 rounds of .45 ACP Black Talons when they came out years ago. Shot a box in my Govt. Model Colt but couldn't tell much difference between them and other good hollow points. Used a water medium for testing. Didn't bother to shoot the rest. IIRC, I paid $12.00 per box.

    About one year before the election of The Great Lord Obamacus Rex The Magnificent. The One Mighty And Strong, The Most Righteous Savior Of Mankind, I sold the four remaining boxes of .45 ACP Black Talon, 20 rounds per box, for $45.00 per box.

    Wonder what I could have got after the election?? :uhoh:

    L.W.
     
  23. unspellable

    unspellable Member

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    Black Talon

    I had an article about a road test of the Black Talon stuff in the heavier calibers, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, 10 mm. The conclusion was that they made a better deer hunting round than a SD round. The write up included some actual hunting and results shooting deer.

    There are some differences in what you want a SD vs deer bullet to do. One of those differences is that you want a SD bullet to open up a bit quicker than a deer bullet.
     
  24. possom813

    possom813 Member

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    If it helps to learn what they're worth value-wise, I just traded 17 .45acp black talons to a fellow for a BSA Boresight kit.
     
  25. nathan

    nathan Member

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    The Talon name was overhyped as a cop killer after all the media raucous. ALso when Winchester stop making them then the more the mystic become bigger and bigger. Its no different from today's modern JHPs.
     
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