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original colt 45

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by TheRodDoc, Nov 28, 2010.

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  1. TheRodDoc

    TheRodDoc Member

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    Does anyone know what brand makes their brass the proper size for the colt 45? (.480" outside dia.)

    I have new Remington cases but they are under size dia. they are .478 outside dia. next to rim and taper to .457 at open end. they should be a straight case at .480" dia. they wont seal in chamber and i have a lot of fouling blowing back past case neck. I only use black powder in these guns.

    can the brass be expanded full length?

    the chamber measures .486 and the cyl. throat is .457.
    the same on my 1st gen and my 2nd gen. ssa's

    Next I want to get a different bullet mold.
    would a .455" dia. bullet be right? I would think it would be.

    was thinking about this mold from rcbs. (expensive though) Good choice or not? Or would a plain flat base bullet in .455" be just as good?

    RCBS 1-Cavity Bullet Mold 45-250-RN-HB 45 Colt (Long Colt) (455 Diameter) 250 Grain Round Nose Hollow Base.

    must not have all parts included in their picture.
    (pic below)

    View attachment 131260
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    All SSMI spec .45 Colt brass is probably going to measure about the same O.D.
    That .480" is the SAAMI Max, so factory stuff is always going to be slightly smaller then .480".
    Sounds like more a over-size chamber & throat problem then an under-size brass problem.
    Older Colts are infamous for having over-size holes.

    The throats should be .454" in the older guns, and .452" in newer ones.
    But until fairly recent 3rd gen guns, they almost never were.

    The RCBS mold is supposed to throw .455" bullets, before sizing & lube.
    Whether it will or not is entirely up to the bullet alloy you use though.
    Harder alloy like Linotype will cast bigger & closer to the actual mold cavity size, but for BP .45 Colt, you want way softer bullets, which will cast smaller.

    Anyway, it would seem you must be loading pretty light loads, or the fired case would surely expand to seal the over-size chambers.

    Maybe you just need to use more or different grade black powder?

    What granual size BP, and how much BP are you using?
    With what bullet weight?

    rc
     
  3. rcflint

    rcflint Member

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    The diameter of the brass is going to change upon firing, and again upon resizing. What diameter is it coming out of your resizing die" What diameter is it with a seated bullet? Winchester, R-P and Starline probably have different wall thickness, they do in every other caliber. 45 Colt brass is very stiff, especially if reloaded several times, which is the reason most BP shooters prefer 44-40 for a rifle, as the brass is very thin and seals the chamber.

    Colt revolver chambers are notoriously large, as until very recently, they remained at the pre-wat dimensions for a .454 bullet, even after changing the barrel to 450.
     
  4. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    Hi TheRodDoc,



    Your Cases should fatten-up a little for being fired a couple times, especially if with a full charge and a heavy Boolit and no Re-Size-ing..


    What you need then, are some over-size Case Re-Sizeing Dies, for which, the Die for Re-Size-inc the .45-70 Cartridge Case, might work just fine.


    I had the same problems as you are inquiring about, and, that's what I did.


    I would think a flat Base Boolit would be just as good, or would be perfect.


    Keep with Pure Lead or a very soft Alloy anyway, and, Natural Lubes.


    How 'bout some images of the Revolver?
     
  5. Foto Joe

    Foto Joe Member

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    No re-sizing is the easiest fix. I started looking into this over on the reloading forum and found that it is common even with smokeless.

    I just went out and threw a caliper on a box of 45 Colt that I loaded a week ago. I'm getting .478 at the mouth below the crimp on all and they run out .478/.479 pretty much all the way to the base. This is brass that has been "Fire Formed" so to speak. I can't tell you how many times these have been loaded but it's more than three.

    Since I quit resizing my 45 Colt brass, the blow-back has minimized, the muzzle velocities are higher and the gun stays much cooler.

    Oh yeah, and like Oyeboten said, Pictures??
     
  6. TheRodDoc

    TheRodDoc Member

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    fired cases from the 2nd gen expand to .480", outside dia. and .456" inside the neck, but that outside is still .006" smaller then the chamber.
    That's using GEOX FFG. full case full with a slight compression. Would need to mold over sized bullets and size to fit the fired case necks. (StrawHat suggested that, which I didn't think of)

    More money for sizing die! sure is getting expensive to shoot the 45 Colt.



    The other gun was left to my brother and I together by my grandpa. We share it. And we both enjoy using it. He has it for the time being but when I get it next I will take a picture of it to post. we have always used store bought .454 bullets. flat base. But they are just to small. want to correct that. We need to measure the bore and groove dia. first i guess.
     
  7. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Fit the bullet to the chamber throats.

    The bore size will then take case of itself, unless it is much bigger then the throats.
    Or else just use .454" bullets and fix the load.

    I think you will get better velocity, better bullet oberturation in the throats & bore, and better case expansion if you were to use FFFG powder.

    255 grain flat-base .454" bullet over 38.5 grains of Goex FFFg & a Mag primer should give you about 950 feet per second from a five and one-half inch barrel.
    With no problems & very good accuracy.

    PS: Your bullets need to be soft enough to scratch with your fingernail. Hard cast bullets ain't gonna work!

    rc
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  8. Foto Joe

    Foto Joe Member

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    I know that historically 2f was used for 45 Colt and I also realize from your previous posts you happen to like the 2f. But I will concur with rcmodel on the 3f. Also, I would suggest that if you can get your hands on Swiss give it a try. Although my jury continues to be out regarding whether Swiss is cleaner than Goex, it is considerably denser and WILL give higher muzzle velocities for a given weight. I'm curious if you are able to "Thumb Seat" your bullets or are you having to use the press to seat them.

    A 40gr load of 3f Swiss in my SAA has been chronographed at way north of 1000fps. Regarding bullets, you might want to contact MtBaldyBullets.com, they have the original 230 grain hollow base bullet mold for the 45 colt. I haven't used them as I'm using 150gr EPP Ultra Gamers from Dash Caliber for my 45 Colt loads, but I'm only loading "Gallery Loads" with those. A hollow base bullet may be the ticket for your chamber throats and barrel. As far as sizing is concerned, I stand on my practice of not sizing 45 Colt brass, at least until I get complacent and realize that the things won't fit in the cylinder any more.

    Keep us up to date on what you're doing, we can all learn more than we think.
     
  9. TheRodDoc

    TheRodDoc Member

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    Thanks guys,

    I might try the FFFG in the 2nd gen.
    My local store might have swiss. They seem to have lots of GEOX, GRAFF AND SONS and KIK brands. I will see if they have it.
    i have always used pure lead. I have a couple hundred feet of pure lead from the trans continental telephone line that went right by my parents place when I was young. They tore it down in the late 60's. Had about a 3" dia. lead tube around 5/16" thick filled with nitrogen encasing the wires. Ran above ground on poles, all the way across the USA. Presidential hot line. anyway before the salvage company picked it up, I took the tractor and drug a long chunk home for bullets.
     
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