Out Of Control Range Officers

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Bill50

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I took a new shooter to the shotgun range today. We shot clays for an hour or so. When we were done, I took her to check out the other clay sports and the rifle range.

At the rifle range, we walked up to the fence during a cease fire. I didn't finish explaining what a cease fire was before a range officer told us to get back to the parking lot.

All the guns and ammo I had were in my trunk, so it's not like we were wandering around with unsafe firearms. Every time I've been in the rifle range, they make non-shooters stay outside the fence. The fence was about 20 yards from the firing line.

I left after he yelled at us. Is there a nice way to report a range officer? It was on a public state park, so rules aren't arbitrary.
 
Our local range is shared with LEO's doing training. They dislike and prevent us from watching. You might have run into the same situation.
 
This was a public one, and we were wearing gym clothes. We were clearly unarmed and outside the area they require people to pay
 
Is there a nice way to report a range officer?
Click to expand...

Before you report anybody you need to read and understand the range rules. It could be that YOU were breaking one of the rules. You need to verify the rules before you report anyone.

It was on a public state park, so rules aren't arbitrary.
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Exactly. Which is why you need to find out whether you were following the rules or not. If you were following the rules, then you need to go see the head park ranger and discuss the problem with the ranger.
 
Perhaps a polite visit to the head park ranger and explain what happened and ask, "Did I do something?"

Perhaps Yogi might need a talking to. Perhaps you might have been standing on their freshly-seeded grass? Don't know, and you may never get any satisfaction from it, but if the RO was doing something he shouldn't, it may get him a talking to so that it doesn't happen again. Ya catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
 
You walked up to watch a hot range that just had a cease fire but apparently you weren't aware of the particulars for the cease fire. It could be the RO was trying to keep the area clear (you safe) or maybe not.

I think I would have just left and shrugged it off.

If you want to pursue the issue further well, there's always that....
 
I have stopped going to ranges because of Range safeties whose summary of training is composed of a 30 minute video, telling me how to shoot and be safe. The smart ones usually give me a bit more leeway once they know my shooting experience. I know they are just doing their job to ensure safety of everyone. But they are better suited paying attention to the ones who don't know a barrel from a trigger.
 
The NRA Range Safety Officer training takes a couple of days to complete. It includes a test that requires a 90% score to pass. Weapons are handled in class, and students can (and have) flunked out for careless handling.
here's a course description:
http://www.nraonlinetraining.org/mod/page/view.php?id=12
(on line version)
An RO's nerves can get frayed dealing with the lowest common denominators on public ranges, albeit there are some folks that let a little authority go to their heads.
 
I used to visit a state run public range several times a year and quit going because of a similar situation. If it was spring and summer time it was one guy who sat in the shack playing on his phone and could care less but come hunting season there is 2-3 RO and sometimes the game warden so now they are all outside watching cause there's more people. I showed up and had about 5 rifles with me and several ammo cans so I began setting up and walked back to the truck for more stuff to come back and be told I couldn't have 2 benches. well one bench was for a buddy. I don't think he liked me correcting him. RO #1 decides he's going to sight in his percussion cap ML probably while on the clock too and at these ranges when we call cease fire everyone must step back behind the yellow line about 6ft from the benches. RO is still fiddling around with his stuff in front of the yellow line so not thinking I step forward to grab my bottle of water on the 2nd bench and all my guns are still in locked cases and RO #1 starts screaming at me. "what don't you understand about behind the yellow line! I said I was getting my water". I don't care, pull that crap again and your out of here" seeing how I drove and hour and paid to get into this place I sucked it up and stayed but D BAG 1,2,3 all had to stand there and stare at me and keep coming behind us watching us. then he decided to tell me after I walked back from the 100yard line that I need to go back down and lower my target. Um I'm 6ft6 shooting off a bipod. I cant shoot at targets sitting on the ground. Funny thing was I had been there 4 times before this and never an issue but now that his buddies and other shooters are there he wants to play tough guy.

to be honest I would rather have a somewhat overzealous one than a dope that doesn't pay attention. We visited another state run range later that year and this one you can pull your car right up to the benches. It was pouring rain for about 20min so I unloaded the truck on the bench and while everyone was hiding in their cars I motioned I was going down range to setup targets. the rain stopped and as I'm trying to set the target stand I head a shotgun slide close. I turn around and two idiots got out of there car and are messing with their guns. It pissed me off so much I yelled to my buddy at the bench, did he just close the action on his gun while I'm down range? someone's going to have a serious problem with the RO if I walk back and there's a loaded gun pointed at me. Walked over to the RO shack and told him and he counseled them and they left. An hour later two young city kids driving daddys benz pull up and unload AK, AR, MP5, ETC. we are at the 50 yard line and they are doing mag dumps with dads trying to teach kids to shoot 22lr. I politely said something as it made me a little nervous as well as the kids. the guy says to his buddy we are jealous we cant afford AR's Ro asked them to stop on his own accord and they didn't so he tossed them. they started running their mouth so it got me hot and I packed up and left. he told me I could have my daypass back and come back. 1.5hr drive I wont be back. probably 1k rounds Rambo style until someone either got the RO or he came on his own. the kid told him he paid and he was told thanks for your contribution now leave.
 
I cannot address the exact situation described in this thread since we only have a limited description of the event. But I can offer some thoughts on the duties of range officers and why the description that has been given raises some concerns. I should mention that I am an RSO, and I work on a volunteer basis at a private club.

The fundamental duty of an RSO is to enforce rules and procedures that are known to everyone. It is true that the RSO's word is law on the range, and you cannot argue with the RSO. But this does not mean that the RSO has unlimited and unquestioned discretion. A qualified RSO acts entirely within clearly defined rules. These rules are the standard operating procedures (SOP) of the range. The SOP will always include the basic rules of firearms safety plus additional range specific procedures.

The RSO is not just responsible for making sure the rules are followed, the RSO is also responsible for making sure that everyone knows the rules. This is a fundamental part of the job. The basic rules may be on big signs, or there may be a rules booklet, but the rules need to be clearly presented.

A properly run range must have a plan for making sure everyone is aware of the rules. The RSO must make sure the rules are clearly presented to everyone as well as making sure the rules are followed.

On the rare occasions when I need to yell at someone to stop immediately, I still end the conversation by explaining how he could have avoided the issue. Usually I point at the big sign with the basic rules. I also reaffirm that he received a complete rule booklet when he joined and that the rules are also available online.

If I raised my voice to someone, and at the end of the encounter he still did not know how to avoid making the same mistake again next time, then I would feel I had not done my job.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
You walked up to watch a hot range that just had a cease fire but apparently you weren't aware of the particulars for the cease fire. It could be the RO was trying to keep the area clear (you safe) or maybe not.

I think I would have just left and shrugged it off.

If you want to pursue the issue further well, there's always that....
Click to expand...

That sounds like a bit of a stretch to me. Cease fire calls at public ranges are usually called on a pretty regular basis for target changes, etc (the interval was every 15 minutes at a public range I used to use). Even if a cease fire was called for an unsafe condition, it's unlikely that this unsafe condition would impact someone standing on the "safe" side of the fence outside of the active area. And, if it was causing a safety issue for someone standing outside of the range fence, that safety violation is the issue the range officer should have been addressing.

It's only a hunch, but I imagine it's far more likely that the range officer was one of those over-zealous types that are occasionally found around this sport… authoritative types who think that they know best, and can't handle the responsibilities of the position. For anyone who has shot at enough public ranges over the years, I imagine you've encountered one or two of these guys.
 
ChuteTheMall said:
Why would anyone want to be a RSO at a public range?
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A lot of private ranges have days that are open to the public. PR, hunters sight in, et. al. Some of them have mandatory work days and working RO is a way to fulfill the obligation.
Once in a while there is someone who will listen and you can help em out. You got your yen and you gets yer yang. :cool:
 
A few years ago I was an Asst Scoutmaster for a troop at a Boy Scout summer camp. The first night the call went out for NRA qualified RSOs and Instructors to help at the range. Since I was both, I told my scoutmaster that I would go down after I helped get some new scouts to where they needed to go.

I walked down to the range road, heard no shooting and saw no range flag so I walked on up the range. Some 20 year old comes out of a shack screaming at me that I had no business on "his" range. I contained my urge to strangle him and collected myself. His boss, another 20 something, comes running out from where they were teaching and I start to explain why I was there.

I said "you know, if this is how you treat people wanting to help, **** you." I turned and walked away and said "you might want to get your range flag up".

I ran ranges in the military and never acted like that guy did. The boss tried to intimidate me a couple of days later in chow line and found out that I didn't intimidate well.
 
I'm a volunteer RO at our local range, and I've served as club XO, which means that I was responsible for the daily staffing and operation of the range.

Practically all of our guys are pretty mellow about most things, but strict as heck about the safety rules. Yes, voices do get raised from time to time, but only to stress that immediate action is needed, such as when someone absent mindedly picks up a firearm during a cease fire. Then we laugh and tell them not worry about forgetting the rules. If they do, one of our friendly ROs will yell them at you.... just trying to make sure you get home with all your parts.

For the most part, our guys seem intent on helping people have a fun, safe time: helping newbies, stopping people who are holding a semi auto pistol wrong, complimenting dads and moms who take time to bring their kids to the range. RO is not a hard job, but it is a very responsible job.

Why do people do it? In our case, ROs get the keys to the range and can go shoot any time they like. I can grab my grandkids and go shooting off hours.

Most of the unsafe activity is by the LEOs. Had one point a loaded shotgun at me without thinking about what he was doing.

OTOH, they do tend to leave their brass. I will never use all the LC 5.56 brass that I've picked up.
 
buckhorn_cortez said:
Before you report anybody you need to read and understand the range rules. It could be that YOU were breaking one of the rules. You need to verify the rules before you report anyone.
Click to expand...

Except we weren't in the range area for any range rules to apply. It's a situation more like standing on a public sidewalk and being told you need to move into the street.
 
Simply - Unacceptable

Some people have no clue as to what courteous means. I would find the top dog and file a formal complaint . If there was any good reason for the RO to ask you to move it should have been done in a professional courteous manner. NOT like a growling dog . Like you, I would be bothered by the manner in which the RO acted. I also suspect that your new shooter now has an experience that will effect her wanting to go to the range again.
 
I worked at the LGS that had an indoor range. We had bullet holes in the ceiling right above the firing line, in the side walls, and several in the plywood dividers between the lanes. As in, if someone had been standing there, they would have been hit.

Until you work a range, you have no idea how utterly stupid and careless some people can be with fire arms. I had one chimp walk out with of the range a loaded 9mm that failed to eject. He's pointing it directly at my chest jerking on the slide with his finger on the trigger.

The whole deal may have been some idiot that he was having a hard time with and it had zero to do with you. Maybe not. I know I couldn't be an RO. I'd take a ball bat to some people.
 
Bill50 said:
I took a new shooter to the shotgun range today. We shot clays for an hour or so. When we were done, I took her to check out the other clay sports and the rifle range.

At the rifle range, we walked up to the fence during a cease fire. I didn't finish explaining what a cease fire was before a range officer told us to get back to the parking lot.

All the guns and ammo I had were in my trunk, so it's not like we were wandering around with unsafe firearms. Every time I've been in the rifle range, they make non-shooters stay outside the fence. The fence was about 20 yards from the firing line.

I left after he yelled at us. Is there a nice way to report a range officer? It was on a public state park, so rules aren't arbitrary.
Click to expand...
Why not directly address the individual when it happened, as opposed to asking anonymous folks on the internet? Too late now.
 
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