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Owning a pistol at 18 in Arizona

Discussion in 'Legal' started by washambala, Jan 3, 2011.

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  1. washambala

    washambala Member

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    In regards to Arizona and federal law:
    I know that you cant purchase a handgun between the age of 18 and 21 from an FFL. I know that you CAN purchase a handgun from a private individual between the ages of 18 and 21. I know that possession of a handgun is legal if you are at least 18. Am I right so far?

    I understand the concept of a Straw purchase. Its illegal to give your buddy 500 bucks and say "Go buy me a Glock 17." However, I understand that a legal parent or gaurdian can legally give you a handgun if you are at least 18 (possibly 14 but thats an entirely different arguement and completely irrelevent).

    So, assuming you are between 18 and 21, would it be considered a straw purchase if you gave your legal parent the money and they bought you the handgun as a gift?
     
  2. Jguy101

    Jguy101 Member

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    Once you give him the money, it is no longer a "gift," so yes, it's a straw purchase. Actual gifts and private purchases are your (and my) only options at this point.
     
  3. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Yes, because it's not a gift, and they wouldn't be the actual purchaser.

    It would be a gift only if they purchased it with their own money, and then gave it to you.
     
  4. Spec ops Grunt

    Spec ops Grunt Member

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    I hate when people don't know that you can sell a handgun to a 19 year old in a private purchase.

    Any tips to convince a seller that it's legal?
     
  5. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Unfortunately, it will be very hard to convince something is legal if they feel it is illegal, because the onus is on them to prove it is illegal and it is just easier for them to go with their false assumptions than to prove them.

    All you can do is print out 18 USC 922(x) and the "providing firearms to juveniles or minors" statutes in your state. Those statutes will show that it is illegal to provide a person with a handgun who is under the age of 18. Assuming 18 is the age limit in your state, of course.
     
  6. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    If you're 18 in Arizona, anyone can gift you a handgun, not just your parents or legal guardian.

    Under state laws, at 18 you are an adult.
     
  7. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes, that's a straw purchase since the intent is to get around the law. A true gift has no intention of getting around any laws, it's just one person wanting to do something nice for another.

    As for convincing people it is legal to sell one in a private transaction, good luck. Some people are just goofy. I ran across a guy here locally who was absolutely convinced that he couldn't sell me a rifle he advertised unless I had a concealed handgun permit. I had one so it wasn't a problem, but he assured me it was a felony if he sold me the rifle without seeing my permit. Alrighty then :)
     
  8. NMGonzo

    NMGonzo Member

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    Just wait till you are 21.

    And also stay away from bars ...
     
  9. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Why?
     
  10. washambala

    washambala Member

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    I guess Im still thinking like a minor (probably a good thing).
    Dont worry. I plan on doing that regardless.

    I guess Ill hold out unless I get lucky. I guess Ill just have to bury myself in rifles and shotguns because everyone knows, rifles and shotguns never get used in violent crimes.
     
  11. wishin

    wishin Member

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    I see nothing wrong with reciprocating a show of generosity on the part of a parent by buying the family member(s) a nice flat screen TV. Unfortunately, the season for gift exchange just passed, but maybe an anniversary or birthday is near.
     
  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Buy it yourself from a private seller. Legal in AZ if you are 18. And that Fed statute says nobody may give/sell a gun to a minor WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION FROM THE PARENTS. So if you are under 18, not a felon, and someone decides to give you a firearm, AND you get written permission from your folks, you are good under both FED and AZ state law.
    What's nice is you may carry in AZ at 18, just not covered by Constitutional Carry until 21. For now.
    BTW, Not an attorney, just reading relevant statutes.
     
  13. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    armoredman,

    That is NOT what the Federal statute allows for persons under 18 years old. You need to read ALL of the exceptions in 18 USC (x) for transfer of a handgun to a minor. Parental permission is NOT the ONLY exception that must be met!

    18 USC (x)(3)(A) subparagraphs (i), (ii), (iii) AND (iv) are all joined by the word 'AND' at the end of (iii). ALL of the exceptions of (i), (ii), (iii) AND (iv) must be met, not just one of them.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

    The permanent transfer of a handgun to a juvenile under the age of 18 via gift or private sale (not involving inheritance) is still illegal according to Federal law, regardless of obtaining written parental permission and lack of prohibitions in state law because the transfer may only be temporary AND for one of the specific purposes in (i) above.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  14. washambala

    washambala Member

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    NavyLT- Does this apply to long guns as well?
     
  15. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    No. Just handguns and handgun ammunition:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

    (x)
    (1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
    (A) a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
    (A) a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (3) This subsection does not apply to—
     
  16. jpatterson

    jpatterson Member

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    Kansas here, but I was in the same boat a few years ago. I ended up doing a private party sale. Chances are there is a local gun trading website where you can probably find something you'd like. When I got my first handgun at 18 I told the man I purchased it from my age, and had the laws printed out and brought them with me.

    Actually ended up trading a gentleman who was an LEO (before my 21st), he was not aware that it was legal but I showed him everything.

    But honestly, I don't even know if you need to mention that you are not 21. If it does not come up, don't bother with it. I would insure that you have the laws on hand though, in the event that it does.

    Good luck!
     
  17. DEAHEAT

    DEAHEAT member

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    I live in Florida and for my 19th b-day my mom got me my first Bersa full size. I can legally car carry if its securely encased. Also i can legally own a handgun in the state of Florida but i cant buy ammo.....

    That being said the cops around here are Nazis and have a field day anything they see and gun and there is no CCW. Cop was almost going to take me to jail i had to pull the statue card on him.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2011
  18. Bovice

    Bovice Member

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    It really sucks being 18. They tell you that you're an adult and they give you a little taste of freedom but you're on a short leash and they're crapping on you. It's not right.

    Buy it from a private owner, and have your older friends/siblings or parents buy your ammo. Stick it to the man.
     
  19. Bovice

    Bovice Member

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    It's better to keep that gun out of sight. The glove box fits the definition of "securely encased" by Florida Law, but most people keep their vehicle registration in there also. If you get stopped for a burned out taillight or something benign and they ask to see registration etc. and you open the glove box to reveal a gun, they might give you a 9mm ear canal. Even if you warn them ahead of time, they get jumpy. Keep it anywhere but there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2011
  20. DEAHEAT

    DEAHEAT member

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    I keep would keep it zipped up on the passenger seat, i'm going to risk my life putting the gun in the glove box or in the back seat for what? So the cops won't give me a hard time i think not. There so dumb they don't even know the statues. I got pulled over going home from taco bell, i roll down the window he sees the case. Asks whats in i told him my gun. He says step out the car, i say are you for real? 45 mins later on the curve in my slippers and white beater i was free to go with a ticket for 51 in a 45. Also note they had 5 squad cars for a 19 year old in slippers with taco bell................ I took the liberty to call that <guy's> supervisor and told him i felt. He said he was going to talk to the Officer who did the traffic stop.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2011
  21. ObsidianOne

    ObsidianOne Member

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    I was very interested in this as well.
    I spoke to quite a few police officers regarding the matter and they all said, as far as carrying anyways, that it's a very fine gray area and it would most likely just cause problems.
     
  22. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Member

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    SD statute provides even for concealed carry @18....The local Sheriff's office was my first stop after school the day I turned 18, and with the courthouse being literally across the street from my HS, I had my permit in mere minutes....
     
  23. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    So, because there is NOT a statute that makes it illegal, it is a gray area? The only thing that is gray is their understanding of AZ law.

    I will never let the fact that a police officer is fuzzy about something to cause me to even consider not engaging in a legal act that I desire to engage in and even have a protected right to engage in.

    If they can't handle the "grey" area in their head, then let their chief, sherrif, or judge handle it for them.
     
  24. ObsidianOne

    ObsidianOne Member

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    The thing is, how many times are you going to be stopped? Until you've met every officer in your city?
    It states that you must be 21 to purchase, but says nothing about possession or carrying.
    The way it was explained to me is "wait until you're 21 to avoid the BS". I know it's not the answer that you want, as it certainly wasn't what I wanted; but sometimes it's better to choose your battles.
     
  25. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    I know quite a few lawyers that would love getting a client who might have been involved in one of these "gray area" arrests.

    The law is the law, not what some officer may make up as they go along.
     
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