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Owning foreign war guns...

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Eb1, Feb 27, 2009.

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  1. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

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    If you are an American, do you feel strange to own a gun that probably killed your Countrymen? I am talking about Mausers/Jap guns, etc?

    Personally I don't think I could own one of these guns. I own Lee Enfields, but I could not own a WWII Mauser. Great gun, but to me I just couldn't bring myself to keep a firearm that could have killed an American.
     
  2. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Do you own any cars?
     
  3. PTK

    PTK Member

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    I've held, fired, and VERY much considered purchasing an original bring back MG-42 - no way it wasn't used. Doesn't bug me one bit.
     
  4. sernv99

    sernv99 Member

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    nope, no second thoughts about owning a foreign gun that may have killed an American. You wanna know why? Because it was the person behind the trigger that killed the American, not the gun.
     
  5. akolleth

    akolleth Member

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    2 thoughts here--

    1-- Each and every soldier, whether fighting for the right cause or not, is still a human life. What makes an American life so much more valuable to you than any other soldiers life? You say you have an Enfield, well that very well may have been used to kill a German, an Italian, an Indian, who knows. Where do you draw the line?

    2-- More importantly, you cannot start moralizing a tool. A firearm is just that, a tool. The person behind the tool is who did the killing, not the firearm itself.
     
  6. ZombiesAhead

    ZombiesAhead Member

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    It is just a tool, as posted above. When police seize a drug dealer's vehicle/possessions to use for law enforcement, they don't consider the harm it may have caused in the past.
     
  7. stubbicatt

    stubbicatt Member

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    I have a Mosin Nagant dated in the early 30's. The stock fore end wood is split on both sides, with arsenal repairs. I reckon the bayonet torqued the barrel and split the wood at that location. I reckon the bayonet was thrust into someone first.

    I understand your reluctance to have a weapon that killed an American, but I figger all men die the same, American, Japanese, German, etc.

    An acquaintance has a Garand that he opened up the butt plate and hunk of human scalp fell out. Guess some guy got butt-stroked. Sort of gory I guess.
     
  8. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    Once more: it's just a tool.

    Your 1911 or Mossburg 500 could very well have been used to taken an American's life, too.

    If you don't want to own one, that's your thing. I, for one, wouldn't judge against you for it.

    But unless you believe in some sort of material karma, just revere the men that gun may have been used against, offer up a prayer to them that their sacrifice put it into your hands as the trophy from a defeated enemy, and promise that it will never harm another of our countrymen.

    We need a 'salute' smilie.
     
  9. n00b

    n00b Member

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    2 Things come to mind:

    #1. Guns Don't Kill People; People Kill People.

    #2. Most solids are just fighting for their country. Right or Wrong they where just taking orders.

    I have seen many Documentories about soliders/pilots from opposing sides meeting after wars end and becoming friends. If a solider can ingore what was done for ones country then one can collect weapons from those wars and country.
     
  10. BCCL

    BCCL Member

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    As someone that owns a "jap" rifle, that was brought back by my late Uncle from WWII, no it doesn't bother me a bit, any more than it bothered him and he was actually shot at by Japanese soldiers, and possibly this very gun.

    If it didn't bother him, why should it bother me....it was the tool used, not the man using it.

    Should we not use a German made wrench to fix our cars?
     
  11. Mp7

    Mp7 Member

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    ...

    if you acquire a used spoon - it might have been involved in cooking before.

    Fact is: there were wars, people killed, people got killed.
    It´s about learning from history.

    And IMHO just the word "American" or "German" or "Japanese"
    as a reason for ...um... emotional-outbreaks is ridiculous.
    All the fallen were men. A lot of them probably people you
    would not even like... some brave, some cowardish, some with,
    some without honor....
    they all are part of history.
    That´s all. The rest is mystified
    sorry... propaganda.

    If i hold an antique arm, it´s even more interesting if it
    has participated in the actual story of its time.

    It stays an innocent and potentially dangerous tool.

    (would love to ccw granpas war-weapon...... wait, that was a heavy mortar :) )
     
  12. The Deer Hunter

    The Deer Hunter Member

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    Because he is from the USA, and we went to war with the axis powers. but I value a fellow coutryman's life more than a citizen from another country. I'm sorry, but I simply cannot place another soldier's life that we were fighting more than our own.

    That really bothers me. Sure, a rifle is a tool, but it's not as arbitrary as a hammer. I know the rifle didn't pull it's own trigger, but it was used to kill people. And the fact that it did kill people does give it a different sense. I'm not saying it should change your opinion on whether or not to use one, but you simply cannot just categorize a rifle as a "tool".

    Anyways, It would not bother me at all to have a rifle that may have killed US
    soldiers.
     
  13. elktrout

    elktrout Member

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    In a pinch, both sides' soldiers picked up weapons that belonged to enemy soldiers they had killed. So, an American could have been using a German weapon and vice versa.

    What about the WWII planes that collectors have in their possession?

    The posts above regarding "tools" are the key to understanding the issue and moving beyond the emotion of the thought. But, if you cannot get past your reservation, then you owe it to your conscience not to own a weapon that may have belonged to an enemy.
     
  14. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    I love my 1895 French Made Mosin Nagant, and my Russian Nagant pistol.

    I also love the M1 Garand I am buying.

    It is all part of the worlds military history.

    Besides, look at it this way. American soldiers often took weapons and other items from thier enemies as a statement of victory.

    I find it rewarding that I have a piece of the Soviet Unions arsenal sitting in my basement in Maine, and that it was sold on the Internet for $100.... Try that deal with an American Made firearm... (Come to think of it... WE made a lot of Mosin's too.....)

    Leroy
     
  15. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    If you are American and it really wierds you out owning a K-98 Mauser, buy a 91/30 Mosin bolt rifle.
    Chances are it was used to kill the Mauser shooter.

    I, for one, have never had a desire to own Nazi firearms or memorabilia, but it doesn't freak me out that a Nazi used firearm in some collectors possession may have been used to kill an allied soldier because I would also be wierded out that my GEW 88 bolt rifle may have been used to kill a doughboy,,,
     
  16. eye5600

    eye5600 Member

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    You can take heart from the statistics showing most soldiers never kill anyone. IIRC, in WWII, there a couple hundred thousand shots fired for every fatality.
     
  17. ar10

    ar10 Member

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    I have a Lignouse 2A .25cal taken from a Nazi officer at Malthasan(sp) POW camp. I know full well what it was used for but it's the gun I keep, not what it was used for.
     
  18. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

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    As mentioned. It is my doing not to own one. I was just wondering if the thought had crossed any other persons mind.

    Regardless if it is "just a tool" or not. It was a tool designed by the enemy to be used for killing Americans, and I think that this in itself is what pushes me away from wanting to own one.

    Yes, I own cars. A Ford and a Chevy. What does that have to do with a Mauser Rifle? What does my 1996 or 2001 cars have to do with 1930's and 1940's rifles?

    I don't judge anyone for owning a WWII German or Jap rifle. I am not one to judge, but I can share my opinion.

    I can tell you this. I really enjoy when I go to the range to shoot my WWII rifles, and someone next to me is shooting German guns. I do take a sense of pride when this happens, but that is just personal, and I am not judging the other person for their decision.
     
  19. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    As stated, it is a tool. I plan to do a milsurp collection one day and would like to have one of each.

    And the statistics will also show that the chances that any individual rifle caused a fatality are low indeed.
     
  20. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I like that one.

    No, I did not shoot anyone with it, and it was not the gun that shot anyone, it was the person weilding it. The same thing that escapes the liberal gun grabbers still.
     
  21. _JT_

    _JT_ Member

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    I have a Mosin Nagant, obviously we never officially had any battles. When i first purchased it back in January, my buddy and i took it out on the farm we hunt at. Setup and shot at trees with a natural mound backstop. We fired off from the back of a Mule 4x4. When i was done firing my second grouping, my buddy noticed blood all over my hand, first thinking i cut myself somehow, the realizing it was on the stock. We werent sure if the Cosmo kept some WWII battle scars in the wooden stock like morons.

    We then realized i had stuck my hand in leftover deer parts in the mule climbing on the back of it.

    Back to the original question, i really wouldnt be bothered by holding a gun, its history. My grandfather has a Civil War rifle that was a confederate weapon that was left in Gettysburgh following the battle. I'd love to get it preserved, right now its just sitting in the basement hanging up.
     
  22. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I think of it a little differently I guess.

    We won, that rifle is a symbol of our victory. It may have killed brave Americans but that rifle was taken from the enemy in his defeat.

    That rifle is proof that our enemy was defeated, and a memorial to the men that made it possible.
     
  23. osamaslice

    osamaslice Member

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    What about a 1943 bnz Mauser rifle later bought by Israel? They seemed to be alright with the idea, so far as I know.
    Also, "guns designed to kill Americans" would be, in my mind, incorrect. For every American killed in World War Two, approximately twenty five Soviet soldiers died. That's not even including Soviet civilians. "Americentrism" isn't always right.
    But utility is most important, and when I see a fine firearm, I do not admire it based on who wielded it.
     
  24. mr.trooper

    mr.trooper Member

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    It only matters if you think the "American cause" is always in the right (its not) or if you think that American lives are worth more than those of other men (they are not).

    "Americentrism" is a good word.
     
  25. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

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    This there was a awful lot of bring backs and it was a goal for a lot of GI's to get lugers.
     
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