P10c fatal flaw?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I pulled the P-10C out, and with the slide barely pulled back, rotated the striker that tiny bit to it's left, and slowly rode the slide home...it stuck. So I racked the slide quickly - went right into battery. Locked the slide to the rear, pushed the striker over, released the slide, went into battery. Tried moving the slide cover down,wouldn't go down far enough to engage. Note - the projection that is flat to the front as seen on other photos is obviously worn into a bevel shape, most likely by normal wear and tear, so that this malf cannot occur to the best of my knowledge. Again, I was able to get the slide to hang up, but only by carefully and slowly riding the slide home. When racked or released from slide lock, the slide went into battery without issue. Again, a sample of one.
 
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Lol, Please. I caught a lot of heat here for calling out faults in the early P-07s, have long maintained that the CZ-100 is one of the worst guns ever made and think that anyone that puts enough work into a CZ-40P to make it reliable is a sadist. I will call a CZ a turd when it is deserved.

On that note, I see that three other people, who have actually put their hands on the gun, confirm exactly what I said on the first page...so, either I was telling the truth about what is actually going on, or it's the start of a Vast CZ Conspiracy, henceforth to be referred to as the VCC.
 
Please what? I report exactly what I saw and did, nothing more, nothing less. As for the P-07 Duty, the infamous bulge irritated a lot of people,among other things, which is why the P-07, (not DUTY marked now), borrows many improvements from the P-09. I had a CZ -100, won't willingly do THAT again, and have never had a 40P, but I don't remember them being reported as THAT bad...I'll have to go reread the subforums on that one.
I haven't had this malfunction, but I will taking the P-10C out to the range again very soon, and will try again with a number of different loads to see if it happens.
 
Please what? I report exactly what I saw and did, nothing more, nothing less. As for the P-07 Duty, the infamous bulge irritated a lot of people,among other things, which is why the P-07, (not DUTY marked now), borrows many improvements from the P-09. I had a CZ -100, won't willingly do THAT again, and have never had a 40P, but I don't remember them being reported as THAT bad...I'll have to go reread the subforums on that one.
I haven't had this malfunction, but I will taking the P-10C out to the range again very soon, and will try again with a number of different loads to see if it happens.

I think he was addressing Hexhead, not you.
 
Got my P-10C out. The only way I could duplicate was to push the striker to the left with my finger(as shown in the video) . You literally have to force it over, there is a click when you do it. The only way it would malfunction the same is if I rode the slide home, (and I mean slow) as stated by another poster. When I grabbed and racked the slide(after pushing the striker over to the left)as I normally load it the "problem" never happened(striker centered itself when I pulled and released the slide). He stated it happened in the first 25 rounds(Didn't happen when he was shooting it.) and it there are others it is happening to. No sign of the "problem" when he is shooting. There is also no other video of the "problem" from others who are shooting it
Made up problem IMHO.
I can’t argue if it’s a made up problem or not. Nobody really knows but Omaha outdoors. It just strikes me strange that they would make a special black MC version of the gun for $849 and then turn around and make a video of a made up problem a day later to sabotage the brand. I tend to give these guys some credibility. They seem legit compared to some of the all sunshine and rainbows glowing reviewers we’ve grown accustomed to seeing
 
I have found that it pays to avoid being an early adapter to a new firearm design. I bought my Walther PPS-M2 not long after it first came out but that is the one exception I can think of, and I haven’t been the slightest bit disappointed with it in almost 2 years of heavy range use.
 
I have found that it pays to avoid being an early adapter to a new firearm design. I bought my Walther PPS-M2 not long after it first came out but that is the one exception I can think of, and I haven’t been the slightest bit disappointed with it in almost 2 years of heavy range use.
A gen2 version is almost always safe to buy without waiting on beta testing. The gen2 normally addresses any problems or concerns from the first gen. On the pps walther got rid of the interchangeable backstrap that if not installed correctly or somehow broken rendered the gun useless and also went to the button style mag release do to the American market whining about the paddle mag release. That along with making the gun less blocky and recontouring the grip essentially eliminated the m1 complaints. But then again glock had some small problems with their gen4’s, so what do I know
 


Edit to add - the oddball thing was I wasn't really meaning to make a video, was just going to practice with the P-10C prior to Dept range qualification next week - it's the closest I have to a Glock. Took the camera at the last moment, ended up with a clear range for just me, and away we went. BTW, that flurry of gunfire you hear about 34 of the way through is the Border Patrol shooting on the police range next to me - they brought ALL the fun, including full auto toys. :)
 
Last edited:


Edit to add - the oddball thing was I wasn't really meaning to make a video, was just going to practice with the P-10C prior to Dept range qualification next week - it's the closest I have to a Glock. Took the camera at the last moment, ended up with a clear range for just me, and away we went. BTW, that flurry of gunfire you hear about 34 of the way through is the Border Patrol shooting on the police range next to me - they brought ALL the fun, including full auto toys. :)

I’m glad yours can overcome the manual malfunction and is reliable as you need it to be, but you kind of just proved what anybody with common sense already knew. That every p10c won’t malfunction but every single one does allow the striker to rotate. I’m thinking maybe a loose slide backplate along with the strikers ability to rotate might be the combination that creates this malfunction. If your backplate doesn’t move I’m guessing all is well. I still don’t understand why Cz made a striker that can rotate, unless it was made that way to be more reliable with debris or water. Don’t worry, Omaha outdoors just showed a failed vp9 so the Hk fanboys are all up in arms now and we can take our focus off of the Cz p10c. The vp9 completely failed in the water and sand, worse than any other gun I’ve seen. These test are all samples of one, however we’ve seen quite a few vp9’s not do so well now.
 
I think he was addressing Hexhead, not you.

Yup, I was replying to the insinuation that my analysis of the mechanical cause of the "failure" and it's inability to disable the firearm if the slide was operated normally was CZ Fanboism.

Thanks for making the video armoredman. It just confirms what has been previously said in regards to this "failure"... or that the VCC is gaining in power and influence.
 
I’m thinking maybe a loose slide backplate along with the strikers ability to rotate might be the combination that creates this malfunction.

Okay, you still aren't paying attention to the mechanics of how the "failure" is actually happening. It is the slow closing of the slide that allows the back plate enough time to drop when the free traveling striker impacts the striker block and pushes the whole striker assembly forward. If the slide closes at a normal rate there isn't enough time for the back plate to drop out of lock before the slide closes fully, preventing any travel by the back plate before the striker assembly can rebound and relock it.

Again, everyone with a P-10C can confirm this. Even if you set up the failure with the rotated striker stuck on the frame and holding the slide open, you can't move the back plate. This is because the striker assembly is fully to the rear and partially embedded in the back plate. Only when you rotate the striker back to it's normal position, allowing it to jump forward, does the back plate momentarily unlock. In order for the back plate to displace, the slide must also at the same time be prevented from closing. If the slide is closing at normal velocity, the stuck striker impacting the frame realigns the striker, but the striker assembly can't travel forward fast enough to impact the striker block with enough force to unlock the back plate because the slide is still traveling forward too.

So, again, this "fatal design flaw" is BS. Now, may some guns have issues? Sure. There may be some parts not to spec in some guns that need factory replacements. Every gun manufacturer has that issue. Is this particular "failure" endemic to the P-10C design as a whole? Nope. It's not even an issue at all once you honestly understand what is being done in the original video (Seriously, do you still not see his left hand slow closing the slide?), how the failure is induced, and how it effects the gun in the real world.
 
Far more time has been spent reading this thread than it will take to fix the issue with a new part.

Mountain meet mole hill.
 
Okay, you still aren't paying attention to the mechanics of how the "failure" is actually happening. It is the slow closing of the slide that allows the back plate enough time to drop when the free traveling striker impacts the striker block and pushes the whole striker assembly forward. If the slide closes at a normal rate there isn't enough time for the back plate to drop out of lock before the slide closes fully, preventing any travel by the back plate before the striker assembly can rebound and relock it.

Again, everyone with a P-10C can confirm this. Even if you set up the failure with the rotated striker stuck on the frame and holding the slide open, you can't move the back plate. This is because the striker assembly is fully to the rear and partially embedded in the back plate. Only when you rotate the striker back to it's normal position, allowing it to jump forward, does the back plate momentarily unlock. In order for the back plate to displace, the slide must also at the same time be prevented from closing. If the slide is closing at normal velocity, the stuck striker impacting the frame realigns the striker, but the striker assembly can't travel forward fast enough to impact the striker block with enough force to unlock the back plate because the slide is still traveling forward too.

So, again, this "fatal design flaw" is BS. Now, may some guns have issues? Sure. There may be some parts not to spec in some guns that need factory replacements. Every gun manufacturer has that issue. Is this particular "failure" endemic to the P-10C design as a whole? Nope. It's not even an issue at all once you honestly understand what is being done in the original video (Seriously, do you still not see his left hand slow closing the slide?), how the failure is induced, and how it effects the gun in the real world.
I understand what you guys are saying. Are you also saying the back plate cannot slide down and cause problems? Just because yours works flawlessly doesn’t mean you should discredit everyone else who has this actual problem. If this was hearsay Cz would not make another part to address this “problem” right? It sounds like you’re saying this malfunction is impossible to occur, which I think is wrong man. I will be part of the p10c club once the gen 2 is released as stated before, whether this is a real issue or not because I planned on buying a gen2 p10c before this whole thing even came up.
 
On M4carbine.net someone experienced the same exact problem with his CZ P10C locking up as in the video while at the range this Monday. Another mentioned that CZ is working on a fix for the problem, a new striker sleeve which I also read in another place.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?190777-Cz-has-a-new-model-Cz-P10-C/page115 --- see post 1149 and beyond

But no one has produced a video of it happening while shooting. Not once.

IMHO the only reason why CZ would do anything is that everyone who watches the Omaha Video and bought a P-10C is in full panic and wants a fix for a non issue. Imagine CZ getting calls from people all day bitching claiming their new pistol is defective and they saw a video on Youtube to prove it.. All due to a video by one Youtuber who claims to have it happen while firing but can't make a video of it. I have seen people freak out over a Smith and Wesson pistol because it has machine marks in the inside of the slide that you can barely see. Some serious OCD people out there,

Another example, not firearm related. I worked for a local home builder during the housing boom in the early 2000's. We had new buyers crawling on their hands and knees looking for dents and nail holes in the baseboard of their new home. Literally couldn't see them unless you were on your hands and knees. I am sure if there a homeowners like that there are also gun owners the same way
 
I made the video specifically to "answer" the questions some people raised from the Omaha one. Oddly enough, I grabbed the camera as an afterthought, was just going to go do some shooting.
I’m glad yours can overcome the manual malfunction and is reliable as you need it to be, but you kind of just proved what anybody with common sense already knew. That every p10c won’t malfunction but every single one does allow the striker to rotate.
Some times common sense seems to be absent, and there seemed to be some confusion. As I stated on other places I have posted this is this is, as is the Omaha video, a sample of one, and mine hadn't been torn down for cerakoting, absolutely bone stock. Of course it isn't scientific - I wasn't even planning on making the video until I got to the range! I have had guns from every manufacturer fail on me, including CZ. Mine is, as always a sample of one - I'd love to shoot more CZ P-10Cs to verify, but I can't afford any more at this point.
As for HK - only guns I ever had from them that failed was the original first gen USPs - those broke down quick on the rental range. Everything else they had seemed quite sturdy.
 
Are you also saying the back plate cannot slide down and cause problems?

I am saying that as the gun is designed, the back plate can not slide down unless a part is out of spec or the "failure" is intentionally induced. But hey, right now in this thread it's just the word of everyone that has actually touched the gun verses the people that have never touched the gun... so, which should we believe?

Just because yours works flawlessly doesn’t mean you should discredit everyone else who has this actual problem.

Stop and think about what you just wrote, because 1) No one has yet to produce a video of the failure happening without it being intentionally induced, so "everyone else who has this actual problem" is currently a group of zero. As opposed to the actual known group of people who have tested this "failure" and confirmed it doesn't stop the gun. 2) By writing "yours works flawlessly" you admit flat out that the "failure" isn't a design flaw because most of the guns out there are working absolutely flawlessly as designed 3) If there are a few guns out there that do actually suffer this failure, the most likely cause for that is an out of spec part...because again, the design of the gun doesn't allow this to happen if the parts are in spec. I'm sure CZ will rectify anyone that has an out of spec part.

And of course, as I said on page 1, if you think you might have a gun with an out of spec rear plate, you can fix the problem in 30 seconds by simply increasing the drag on the part by peening or staking it so that it can't free travel in it's insert.

And with that, I'm out. This has turned into the usual tiresome internet gun forum BS where the people with their hands on the gear and first hand knowledge have to contend with people whose closest contact has been youtube. I have zero Fs left to give about people with zero skins on the wall.
 
Wow! And I thought diehard Hk fans were irritable. Yeah I’m done here to, nothing else really to say. We’ve said it all. The few p10c’s I’ve shot worked flawless as well. But then again my p320c doesn’t fire when dropped also. People anymore just want to discredit someone else and really I could give a damn what anyone thinks. I was just sharing a video for people who might have a concern about a potential problem with their gun. I shoot a lot and detail strip my guns so I’d appreciate someone sharing what they come across as maybe a design flaw or potential problem. It’s up to you as the owner to decide and you only. I thought that was the point of gun forums, to share common knowledge and concerns. But hey what do I know. It’s easier to just all but call people liars I guess. You guys have a nice day.
 
"...before I start carrying full time..."

Why would anyone carry a gun that he has any doubts about or hopes problems will be fixed before bullets go through tender parts of his anatomy? I have never carried any gun/ammo combination that was not 100%. (No, "great looks" do not count!).

Jim
 
I was at my gun club today and now have close to 1000 rounds through my P10. I've had 1 FTF with my reloads and none with my carry ammo. I'm not sure what's going on with other's P10's, but mine functions as it should. On a related note, I was shooting strings of 3 to 5 shots as quickly as I could today. With the P10 I'm back on target more quickly and accurately than any of my other guns. The only thing I don't care for is the serrated trigger, which isn't as comfortable for me during extended range sessions as a flat trigger. It's not enough of a problem where I'm going to replace it.
 
I am considering the HBI trigger, as I did get some trigger bite by the end of my last range time, but for an EDC carry pistol, the trigger is absolutely no problem at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top