Roz
Member
Hey before you buy from Kaehny.de, check out my experience in the Transaction forum.
P22 European-only accessories...
- Thread starter nvrquit
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nvrquit
Member
Update...
As per my most recent previous post, today I called S&W/Walther CS.
The hold wasn't very long and I spoke with a personable lady that attempte to track down the status of my returned replacement P22. It appears this particular P22 is being handled by an individual that is currently on vacation(?!?) and she was inable to obtain any curretn status information. Her recommendation was to call again on Monday(08-25/2003).
Now, when reading the preceding, remember that this pistol, a replacement for my origianl P22, has been at S&W/Walther America now for some 4 actual weeks. While the CS personnel at S&W/Walther have been considerably nicer and more professional in presentation than some other companies I've dealt with, on a whole, it does seem that the majors in firearms production(Ruger, Beretta, etc.) really don't seem to have adequate internal communication up to a "professional" level.
On well, updates to follow!
As per my most recent previous post, today I called S&W/Walther CS.
The hold wasn't very long and I spoke with a personable lady that attempte to track down the status of my returned replacement P22. It appears this particular P22 is being handled by an individual that is currently on vacation(?!?) and she was inable to obtain any curretn status information. Her recommendation was to call again on Monday(08-25/2003).
Now, when reading the preceding, remember that this pistol, a replacement for my origianl P22, has been at S&W/Walther America now for some 4 actual weeks. While the CS personnel at S&W/Walther have been considerably nicer and more professional in presentation than some other companies I've dealt with, on a whole, it does seem that the majors in firearms production(Ruger, Beretta, etc.) really don't seem to have adequate internal communication up to a "professional" level.
On well, updates to follow!
nvrquit
Member
Update...
Today a follow-up call was placed for the individual gentleman responsible for handling my P22's review/replacement. Since this was his first day back from vacation, knowing myself how that usually works, I waited until 13:30 to place the call.
Upon being connected with him, after identifying myself and the nature for my call, he indicated the P22 was still in the "repair" shop(Note: the pistol was to be replaced, not repaired). I was asked for my telephone number and informed I would be called back with disposition.
As of close today, I had not received a call from said individual. These events are not impressing me with a sense of confidence in the Walther America customer service. I will allow a day before calling WA/CS again to try and find out what the status may be.
Update to follow.
Today a follow-up call was placed for the individual gentleman responsible for handling my P22's review/replacement. Since this was his first day back from vacation, knowing myself how that usually works, I waited until 13:30 to place the call.
Upon being connected with him, after identifying myself and the nature for my call, he indicated the P22 was still in the "repair" shop(Note: the pistol was to be replaced, not repaired). I was asked for my telephone number and informed I would be called back with disposition.
As of close today, I had not received a call from said individual. These events are not impressing me with a sense of confidence in the Walther America customer service. I will allow a day before calling WA/CS again to try and find out what the status may be.
Update to follow.
blue86buick
Member
Damn...what an ordeal. I've been lusting for a P22 for a while, and I sure as heck hope I get a good one....and I PRAY i never have to send it in for work. 
nvrquit
Member
Update
Today at 17:23, I received a call from the Walther America CS rep that is handling the review/replacement of my Walther P22(remember, the current P22 in question was a replacement for my origianl P22; read previous posts).
The explanation was that he, prior to vacationing last week(8-18 to 8-22), had been attempting to obtain a replacement right side plate(reference the Walther P22 "Operating Instructions" manual) from Walther, Germany. Said right side plate is also the component on which the pistol's serial # resides. It was stated that to date, Walther had not been very forthcoming with any information, indicating as to whether said side plate would be available or shipped. The following discussion between myself and the S&W/WA CS individual was professionally courteous and it was agreed that a new P22 would be shipped as a replacement. The FFL holder information was confirmed(as said information was on hand at WA CS from the previous replacement). Additionally, the WA CS rep indicated, that should I be charged any transfer, tax, NICS fees(which I will), that I should make copies of said charges and mail said copies to WA CS addressed to him and I would be compensated for those costs.
Summary:
Now, I have waited four weeks(three working weeks, plus one "vacation" week) to agree to a condition that was, to my recollection(and I take notes while talking with any CS rep from any company), previously discussed and arrived at(replacement of pistol, not repair) before the P22(replacement #1) was returned to WA. Curious as to the delay and reasoning, I will hold any judgement and follow-up correspondence to superior personnel, until I have had a chance to test the second replacement P22.
Update to follow.
Today at 17:23, I received a call from the Walther America CS rep that is handling the review/replacement of my Walther P22(remember, the current P22 in question was a replacement for my origianl P22; read previous posts).
The explanation was that he, prior to vacationing last week(8-18 to 8-22), had been attempting to obtain a replacement right side plate(reference the Walther P22 "Operating Instructions" manual) from Walther, Germany. Said right side plate is also the component on which the pistol's serial # resides. It was stated that to date, Walther had not been very forthcoming with any information, indicating as to whether said side plate would be available or shipped. The following discussion between myself and the S&W/WA CS individual was professionally courteous and it was agreed that a new P22 would be shipped as a replacement. The FFL holder information was confirmed(as said information was on hand at WA CS from the previous replacement). Additionally, the WA CS rep indicated, that should I be charged any transfer, tax, NICS fees(which I will), that I should make copies of said charges and mail said copies to WA CS addressed to him and I would be compensated for those costs.
Summary:
Now, I have waited four weeks(three working weeks, plus one "vacation" week) to agree to a condition that was, to my recollection(and I take notes while talking with any CS rep from any company), previously discussed and arrived at(replacement of pistol, not repair) before the P22(replacement #1) was returned to WA. Curious as to the delay and reasoning, I will hold any judgement and follow-up correspondence to superior personnel, until I have had a chance to test the second replacement P22.
Update to follow.
DougCxx
Member
Bummer, it looks like a nifty pistol, and isn't very expensive.....
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Can somebody explain what the magazine issue here is? The "-A" prefix magazines? What is that? From what I have gathered it had one type inculded when it was new, but they substituted another when it was returned for service?
~
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Can somebody explain what the magazine issue here is? The "-A" prefix magazines? What is that? From what I have gathered it had one type inculded when it was new, but they substituted another when it was returned for service?
~
nvrquit
Member
P22 #2 Replacement Update...
Well, after only 10 weeks and two days, I recveived a call from the local FFL holder that received the #2 replacement Walther P22.
As a refresher, read the previous posts on this thread for some details leading up to this happy day. Now, to the particulars!
The #2 replacement has been found to a definite step up from replacement #1(replacement P22's are hereafter referred to as R1 and R2 respectively, to reference replacement P22's #1 & #2). The slide on R2 is the same shade of satin black as was my original P22(in contrast to R1, refer to previous posts). Two suffix -A mags were received with R2, instead of the non -A suffixed mags, as were received with R1. Hopefully, this positive sign may signal the end to the travails I've experienced since the purchase of the original P22. Range time re-running the ammo tests will tell(using both the 3.4" and 5" barrels, with all mags... lots of ammo!). All other checks upon field stripping of R2 found no irregularities of any type.
For those not familiar with the P22's mag issues, in short the original mags issued with P22's were found to be the root cause of feeding problems experienced by early P22's. Subsequent redesigned replacement mags had the same part number as the original mags, save with the addition of a -A added to the part number. There are several other posts regarding this particular topic and for this, I suggest the use of the board's Search function.
Updates on ammo fuction/reliability testing will be posted.
Well, after only 10 weeks and two days, I recveived a call from the local FFL holder that received the #2 replacement Walther P22.
As a refresher, read the previous posts on this thread for some details leading up to this happy day. Now, to the particulars!
The #2 replacement has been found to a definite step up from replacement #1(replacement P22's are hereafter referred to as R1 and R2 respectively, to reference replacement P22's #1 & #2). The slide on R2 is the same shade of satin black as was my original P22(in contrast to R1, refer to previous posts). Two suffix -A mags were received with R2, instead of the non -A suffixed mags, as were received with R1. Hopefully, this positive sign may signal the end to the travails I've experienced since the purchase of the original P22. Range time re-running the ammo tests will tell(using both the 3.4" and 5" barrels, with all mags... lots of ammo!). All other checks upon field stripping of R2 found no irregularities of any type.
For those not familiar with the P22's mag issues, in short the original mags issued with P22's were found to be the root cause of feeding problems experienced by early P22's. Subsequent redesigned replacement mags had the same part number as the original mags, save with the addition of a -A added to the part number. There are several other posts regarding this particular topic and for this, I suggest the use of the board's Search function.
Updates on ammo fuction/reliability testing will be posted.
RecoilRob
Member
P22 mag details.....
I did a search on the mags but didn't find a very detailed explanation on the changes that were made so I will provide one here.
My 5in. P-22 came with the -A mags and ran perfectly with all kinds of ammo except the PMC Target standard velocity. After a few hundred rounds it would function about 90% with the SV stuff but you could tell it was just barely strong enough to cycle.
Ordered a couple extra mags from Earl's and was dismayed to find that they were non-suffix models. Decided to try them and, sure enough, had FTF problems like everyone said they had. Looking at them, compared to the -A's showed the major difference was the lack of a slot, .850X.100 placed about 1.2in. down at the back of each side. This slot allows the rims to displace sideways rather than stack which allows the bullet nose to stay up. The top round in the early mags would not hold its' nose up and so would jam into the feed ramp.
Another thing I noticed was a lot more spring tension in the old design mag. MUCH harder to load. Pulled them apart and compared the springs with the updated mag and found them to be the same wire size and pitch but about 3in. longer!
I proceeded to trim the springs to equal the -A's and cut matching slots into the sides with my trusty Dremel. (Yes, I am one of those KTOG guys. We don't leave home without one!) After modification, the non-suffix mags work just like the -A's.
So, if you find yourself with a P-22 that won't run right with the non-suffix mags but is otherwise OK, you might try modifying the mags before sending the package back to SW/Walther and going through all the headaches. Rob
I did a search on the mags but didn't find a very detailed explanation on the changes that were made so I will provide one here.
My 5in. P-22 came with the -A mags and ran perfectly with all kinds of ammo except the PMC Target standard velocity. After a few hundred rounds it would function about 90% with the SV stuff but you could tell it was just barely strong enough to cycle.
Ordered a couple extra mags from Earl's and was dismayed to find that they were non-suffix models. Decided to try them and, sure enough, had FTF problems like everyone said they had. Looking at them, compared to the -A's showed the major difference was the lack of a slot, .850X.100 placed about 1.2in. down at the back of each side. This slot allows the rims to displace sideways rather than stack which allows the bullet nose to stay up. The top round in the early mags would not hold its' nose up and so would jam into the feed ramp.
Another thing I noticed was a lot more spring tension in the old design mag. MUCH harder to load. Pulled them apart and compared the springs with the updated mag and found them to be the same wire size and pitch but about 3in. longer!
I proceeded to trim the springs to equal the -A's and cut matching slots into the sides with my trusty Dremel. (Yes, I am one of those KTOG guys. We don't leave home without one!) After modification, the non-suffix mags work just like the -A's.
So, if you find yourself with a P-22 that won't run right with the non-suffix mags but is otherwise OK, you might try modifying the mags before sending the package back to SW/Walther and going through all the headaches. Rob
nvrquit
Member
Nice post on the mag issue
RecoilRob,
Very nice post on the P22 mag feed issue. The post covers the particulars nicely!
I do seem to remember there being a post regarding this in similar detail(without the Dremel/mag spring mods), however it may have been on a different forum.
Updates on function testing may be a little while, but it will be posted.
RecoilRob,
Very nice post on the P22 mag feed issue. The post covers the particulars nicely!
I do seem to remember there being a post regarding this in similar detail(without the Dremel/mag spring mods), however it may have been on a different forum.
Updates on function testing may be a little while, but it will be posted.
nvrquit
Member
I'm Back......
.... with the long overdue ammunition testing of the 2nd replacement(or as in 3rd Walther P22) that was received from S&W/Walther USA on 09-29/03 of last year.
I know this seems like quite a delay(and it is), but as we were in the process of having a new house built, me working for myself(computer systems consulting), two hospital stays for the MIL(we were/are the main contact/support for the in-laws for these situations) and all the other little things that seemed to pile-on during this time frame.... well, the ammo test just wasn't very high on the priority tree during that time. In any event, sorry for the delay.
Now then, here's the ammo test .
Total different manufacturers: 5
Total ammo types across manufacturers lines: 17
Total rounds fired: 1020
Failures to feed: 38
Failures to Extract: 41
Failures to Eject: 4
Jams of any/all Types: 11
Failures to Fire(on first strike): 13
Ammo used:
Winchester Power Point X22LRPP
Winchester T22 Target XT22LR
Winchester SuperX Hollow Point X22LRH
Winchester Wildcat WW22LR
Remington Subsonic Hollow Point SUB22HP
Remington High Vel. Hollow Point 1622
Remington Yellow Jaccket 1722
Remington Viper 1922
Federal American Eagle AE5022
Federal American Eagle AE22
Federal High Vel. Hollow Point 712
Aguila Super Maximum Hollow Point
Aguila Super Maximum Solid
CCI Stinger 0050
CCI MiniMag 0030
CCI MiniMag 0031
60 rounds of each ammo type were fired, 20 rounds through each magazine. The three magazines were two 265 93 44-A and one 265 93 36-A, which are the finger rest and flat bottom magazines, respectively.
The ammo types that experienced no failures or jams are:
All winchester ammunition tested
All Aguila ammunition tested
Remington High Velocity Hollow Point 1622
CCI MiniMag 0030 and 0031
The most troublesome/failure experienced ammunition:
Remington Yellow Jacket 1722 - 20 Failures to Extract, no other types
Remington Viper 1922 - 24; 16 Failures to Extract, 4 Failures to Eject, 4 Failures to Fire(on first strike)
Federal American Eagle AE5022 - 34; 12 Failures to Feed, 12 Failures to Extract, 2 Failures to Eject, 10 Jams of varying types
All magazines experienced failures/jams with the ammo that was not 100% reliable, so it would appear that the f/j's were all of the ammo related variety and not related directly to the magazine in use. That's a good thing.
The barrel used was the short 3.4" barerel, with the barrel nut being prepped before testing, with the use of Loctite #242(blue non-wicking). No barrel nut loosening was experienced either during the test progress or at the end of the testing. No attempt at accuracy testing was performed during this test.
Mechanically, the pistol, with ammo it likes, performed well. However, the safety seems to be a bit on the loose side, with the safety actually dropping to the safe position when the slide was dropped on the first round of anew mag. This occurred 7 different times. Also, some ammo types have a nasty habit of being ejected directly into the shooter's face or the forward portion of the head above the forehead.
A post-test review of mechanical condition will be posted following the post-test cleaning. Stay tuned to this Bat-Channel
.... with the long overdue ammunition testing of the 2nd replacement(or as in 3rd Walther P22) that was received from S&W/Walther USA on 09-29/03 of last year.
I know this seems like quite a delay(and it is), but as we were in the process of having a new house built, me working for myself(computer systems consulting), two hospital stays for the MIL(we were/are the main contact/support for the in-laws for these situations) and all the other little things that seemed to pile-on during this time frame.... well, the ammo test just wasn't very high on the priority tree during that time. In any event, sorry for the delay.
Now then, here's the ammo test .
Total different manufacturers: 5
Total ammo types across manufacturers lines: 17
Total rounds fired: 1020
Failures to feed: 38
Failures to Extract: 41
Failures to Eject: 4
Jams of any/all Types: 11
Failures to Fire(on first strike): 13
Ammo used:
Winchester Power Point X22LRPP
Winchester T22 Target XT22LR
Winchester SuperX Hollow Point X22LRH
Winchester Wildcat WW22LR
Remington Subsonic Hollow Point SUB22HP
Remington High Vel. Hollow Point 1622
Remington Yellow Jaccket 1722
Remington Viper 1922
Federal American Eagle AE5022
Federal American Eagle AE22
Federal High Vel. Hollow Point 712
Aguila Super Maximum Hollow Point
Aguila Super Maximum Solid
CCI Stinger 0050
CCI MiniMag 0030
CCI MiniMag 0031
60 rounds of each ammo type were fired, 20 rounds through each magazine. The three magazines were two 265 93 44-A and one 265 93 36-A, which are the finger rest and flat bottom magazines, respectively.
The ammo types that experienced no failures or jams are:
All winchester ammunition tested
All Aguila ammunition tested
Remington High Velocity Hollow Point 1622
CCI MiniMag 0030 and 0031
The most troublesome/failure experienced ammunition:
Remington Yellow Jacket 1722 - 20 Failures to Extract, no other types
Remington Viper 1922 - 24; 16 Failures to Extract, 4 Failures to Eject, 4 Failures to Fire(on first strike)
Federal American Eagle AE5022 - 34; 12 Failures to Feed, 12 Failures to Extract, 2 Failures to Eject, 10 Jams of varying types
All magazines experienced failures/jams with the ammo that was not 100% reliable, so it would appear that the f/j's were all of the ammo related variety and not related directly to the magazine in use. That's a good thing.
The barrel used was the short 3.4" barerel, with the barrel nut being prepped before testing, with the use of Loctite #242(blue non-wicking). No barrel nut loosening was experienced either during the test progress or at the end of the testing. No attempt at accuracy testing was performed during this test.
Mechanically, the pistol, with ammo it likes, performed well. However, the safety seems to be a bit on the loose side, with the safety actually dropping to the safe position when the slide was dropped on the first round of anew mag. This occurred 7 different times. Also, some ammo types have a nasty habit of being ejected directly into the shooter's face or the forward portion of the head above the forehead.
A post-test review of mechanical condition will be posted following the post-test cleaning. Stay tuned to this Bat-Channel
pauli
Member
/me checks the ammo waiting for when he finally gets to shoot his darn p22...
minimag 0031, remington bulk pack 1622ab. looks fine to me.
neat stuff, i love reading proper test results.
minimag 0031, remington bulk pack 1622ab. looks fine to me.
neat stuff, i love reading proper test results.
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