P3AT Junk as Compared to LCP & BG 380?

[MachIVshooter]

A 380 is a inferior personal protection round IMHO. And overpriced on top of that.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I (we) appreciate that it was stated as opinion and not fact.

That said, the .380 has given plenty a dirtnap all over the world, and modern technology has made it that much better. We have .380 loads today that out-perform 9mm loads of 20 or 30 years ago, and it's these tiny guns that make it a practical choice for deep concealment or pocket carry. Really, only the Kahr PM9 is small enough and reliable enough to be a pocket 9mm, and it's still larger and heavier than the P3AT and it's bretheren.

I, too, prefer a larger cartridge when possible. But my CS45 and Witness compact 10mm won't ride in my back pocket (not comfotably and concealed, anyhow. My P3 does. And with the penetration and expansion I get with Golden Sabers, Gold Dots and Sierra JHP's, I'm plenty confident in it's abilities.

 

[NMGonzo]

A 380 is a inferior personal protection round IMHO. And overpriced on top of that.

It's not the caliber, it's the size of the fight in the guy.

 

[Kiln]

My P40 has thousands of rounds through it and it still looks pretty good inside. Not my favorite gun but I do enjoy it alot.

Kel Tec estimates the lifespan of their pistols to be around 6k rounds in case you're wondering.

I'm sure Ruger's guns are close to that lifespan as well since their design is basically identical but you'll never hear Ruger give an honest estimate of their pistol's lifespan.

 

[exavid]

I've fired around 600 rounds through my LCP without incident. It's been totally reliable. It did take me a good while to get decent accuracy with it but now it'll hit a paper plate at 25yds every time which is good enough for what I want it for. The gun is just plain invisible in a DiSantis Nemesis pocket holster. I carry mine in my left front pocket, it's invisible in jeans or shorts. I also have its big brother the LC9 and carry it often as well but the LCP is the easiest gun I own to conceal. Reliability, concealability are my two most important considerations for a carry gun. As for the .380 being a 'wimpy' cartridge, I'd argue that some of the SD ammo like Hydro Shoks, Corbon and Buffalo Bore cartridges ain't BB gun ammo. 100grs at 1150fps might hurt a bit.

 

[tryshoot]

I had 1st gen keltek I had problems with, my friend had problems with his p-32. I own lcp w/crimson trace laser (also had on P3at) and it has never failed. Never shot that S&W.

 

[pockets]

I've had no negative issues with five Kel-Tecs: a couple 2nd Gen P3AT's, a 1st Gen P32, a 2nd Gen P32, and a PF9. All have been very reliable carry tools.
I prefer the Kel-Tec grips BECAUSE they are rougher. Makes it easier to maintain a good hold on rather small grips. Ruger's copies of the P3AT and PF9 may be prettier, but they are too smooth for me.
As for the size/caliber/power thing? That is an endless debate of personal preference.


.

 

[WvHiker]

I have a P3AT that had a problem with the hammer going all the way back and staying there with the trigger fully depressed. Turns out a little rod seated in the back of the trigger (easy to spot if you have one handy) had worked its way out.

Kel Tec was offering to fix it but a guy on a knife forum pointed it out to me before I sent it in. Pushed the rod back in and it works just fine agai, but I worry it'll happen at the wrong time so I don't carry it and feel weird about selling it. Just a heads up.

KelTec's CS department is super friendly. They'll mail you parts for free the day after you email them. Nice people.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Kel Tec estimates the lifespan of their pistols to be around 6k rounds in case you're wondering.

That's lawyer talk. I've seen 5000 or 6000 rounds cited for guns from several different makers, including ones with a lifetime warranty (or equivalent, ala Ruger); I think S&W says 5000 rounds for their SIGMA 9mm, for example. Nearly all of them will keep their guns running until you give up on them, regardless of the number of rounds, if you're the original owner, and a few will do so even if you aren't. Five or six thousand rounds doesn't mean much in this sort of discussion.

As to which is most reliable? I didn't vote, and can't -- as I haven't had extended experience with all three. I have had an LCP and a P3AT, and couldn't tell that much difference. I do know of people who had bad experiences with BOTH of those guns, apparently related to new guns during their early introduction. I think the Ruger LCP is prettier than the rest, but that's LOOKS, nothing more.

 

[JohnBT]

"Really, only the Kahr PM9 is small enough and reliable enough to be a pocket 9mm"

I guess I bought the only small enough and reliable enough Rohrbaugh R9 five years ago. And it's accurate.

John

 

[MachIVshooter]

I guess I bought the only small enough and reliable enough Rohrbaugh R9 five years ago. And it's accurate.

I have never fired one, but from what I've researched on them (a pretty decent amount), they're finicky about ammo and tend to start malfunctioning if not well maintained, especially changing the recoil springs every 200 rounds or so.

They're also out of most folks' budget for a subcompact 9mm.

I'm glad you like yours, but I just can't convince myself that a tiny gun known to be very touchy is worth more than double what one that is only slightly larger (.2" longer, .3" taller and 1/2 ounce heavier) costs.

 

[JohnBT]

"known to be very touchy"

Ah, the wisdom of the internet. Known by whom? Certainly not by the majority of owners. Maybe you should try one before believing every little thing you read on the internet and making absolute statements of fact.

Sure, I've read a few complaints, but I see them about every make and model. Most of the R9 owners I've talked to have said their R9 fired every brand of ammo they'd tried and were reliable. And a recoil spring is $4.95. I put another one in last night. A lot of folks spend more than that on coffee and/or cigarettes everyday.

Rohrbaugh has been selling all they can make for 8 years. Where are all of the thousands of unhappy customers?

John

 

[MCgunner]

Really, only the Kahr PM9 is small enough and reliable enough to be a pocket 9mm

I pocket carry a Kel Tec P11 and have for the last 15 years and 11,000 plus trouble free rounds. I know there are folks that pocket carry SP101s and Glock 26s, have told me so. I don't call the G26 or SP101 a pocket carry for ME, but one man's opinion is NOT fact, just opinion.

 

[MCgunner]

I guess I ought to put it this way, some folks are willing to tolerate more weight in their pocket in order to be better armed. I'm one of those. Now, Springfield has the XDs out, a pocket sized .45. I think 9mm +P is good enough, near as good as .45 +P from short barrels and has better firepower. I'm on the fence about going to the .45, but it sure is a handy little pocket size .45. I need to check one out.

 

[skt239]

Who's carrying a gun in their shirt pocket?

 

[MachIVshooter]

I pocket carry a Kel Tec P11

You're in a minority. The consensus on this board and abroad is that the P11 (and even PF9) are too large to be considered pocket guns, unless it's a large coat pocket.

They won't fit in my pants pocket, nor those of anyone else I know. Different story if you walk around in BDUs or cargo pants day in and day out, but out here, we pretty much all wear blue jeans, and mostly Wranglers.

If it works for you, great, but I don't think you'll get many deciples touting the P11 as a pocket pistol.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I have pocket carried a PF9 without a lot of problems, and also did it with a P11 -- but that (with the P11) was NOT a good option for me -- and I'm a BIG guy. IWB works fine with any of them, and with the right holster, both unnoticeable and very comfortable. The little hanger strap (a hook, almost) available for the PF9 or P11 can work, too, but complicates the use of a holster if you want to go that route TOO.

A pocket holster is really important if you're doing pocket carry, however, and a surprising number of folks just slip the gun in their pockets.

 

[NMGonzo]

Who's carrying a gun in their shirt pocket?

That would be me ... sometimes.

 

[TarDevil]

I have two magazine reviews in my possession where a brace of .380 micros were tested. In both reviews all experienced malfunctions (guns were disassembled, cleaned, lubed and reassembled before testing). The P-3AT received the poorest rating for reliability in both reviews and in one the gun had to be retired from testing due to component failures.

Yet in THR I read mostly rave reviews about Ket-Tec. What's up?

I know you can get a lemon in any design, but Kel-Tec batting average is pretty poor in the gun rags I've read.

What really scares me is that ALL the .380 micros experienced failures. I think that genre of gun is not in the running for any of my dollars.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I'm sure it's been said... But Kel-Tec's customer service is fantastic! I also know Smith is typically good, but don't know about Ruger's.

I think all of them should be reliable if you break them in a little bit and clean them VERY often.

 

[JohnBT]

"in one the gun had to be retired from testing due to component failures."

"Yet in THR I read mostly rave reviews about Ket-Tec. What's up?"


I bought a P-32 after they'd been out a year or so; the SN was 12xxx. Shortly thereafter it had the "trigger axis failure" from a batch of bad parts. The trigger would pull all the way back and the gun would not fire. KT fixed it quickly and for $20 upgraded the slide to hard chrome.

I carried that P-32 for nearly 7 years out of the 10 I owned it and then sold it to a staff member here. (I had a Rohrbaugh and no further use for the KT.)

My father bought a new Python in 1990 and we left the store with it before realizing that the front sight was crooked. Back it went to Colt. It's been a great gun that he shot weekly through 2006 and that I still shoot.

I had to return 2 new 22/45 Rugers when they came out. They fixed the second one by replacing most of the parts and tossed in a 40-ounce crisp trigger job for free.

Stuff happens.

One or two reviews are exactly that, just one or two reviews. Or in the case of the Gun Tests review of the Rohrbaugh R9, total incompetence or outright lies. Google will find Rohrbaugh's rebuttal letter to Gun Tests. Gun Tests didn't even buy the gun and they complained they only got one mag. They got the same gun that worked so well for the two well known gun rags that had already reviewed it. The SN in the pics proves it.

But people still refer to the Gun Tests review as some sort of factual info. It's just one little blip on the radar about one gun out of many thousand.

John

 

[orionengnr]

I had two P3ATs (as well as a P32 and a P11). I learned a lot about the KTOG site, a lot about KT's great CS (and received a bunch of free parts, few of which did any good), a lot about how to do a Fluff & Buff, and, bottom line... never got any of them reliable enough to carry. Sold each at a substantial loss with full disclosure. Gave the P32 away.

I have also owned two LCPs, both of which worked correctly from round #1 (still have one, and a friend has the other).

I don't know anything about the Bg380, except that I checked one out a Bass Pro. The controls for the laser were pretty funky, and that steered me away.

You can probably guess which way I voted.

 

[marv]

I don't own a bodyguard of any persuation. I do have a P3AT and an LCP. That being said, my EDC is a Taurus TCP 738 in black stainless.

 

[Don357]

I voted for the P3at, seeing as it is the original and already has the bug's worked out of it. And the Ruger is a copy of the Kel-Tec and is still in the de-bugging phase. As for the S&W BG, I have talked to several folks that have them and really don't like them. They bought name.

 

[Ron James]

I've owned the Kel Tec for a number of years with no problem and I'm very comfortable with the caliber for self defence. I've owned and fired firearms since I was 10 years old and that was 61 years ago and I have to laugh when I read this or that caliber is no good for self defence, shot placement is many times more important than caliber. When ever someone starts crowing about large calibers for self defence ( not offence , there is a big difference ) I know they are blowing smoke and repeating what they've read or heard on the inter-net and I just just walk away.:banghead:

 

[franco45]

My LCP has been perfect. So were the 3 Kel-Tec P32s that I owned. I agree that the controls on the BG 380 are just too much for a pocket gun. It may be a fine piece though. I don't know. I haven't shot one.
I carry my LCP 60% of the time, I carry a carry a Kahr CM9 about 30% of the time. If it fits in the front pocket of the pants I am wearing it will displace the LCP for that day. The other 10% of the time I carry a Kahr CW9 or S&W 642.