PA laws for an out-of-stater?

[parsimonious_instead]

Greetings:

I'm not too encouraged by what I'm seeing from what I'm reading about PA gun laws.
I'm a resident of NYS (with a relatively rare unrestricted "full carry" permit), but no nonresident PA permit.
I'd like to bring a rifle or two and a handgun or two to a friend's house in northeastern PA, and shoot on his private land - so I'm not officially "going to a range."
It's not an especially long trip from my place to his, so in theory it could be an uninterrupted journey.
Oh, my plan would be to have everything unloaded and locked up in a hard-sided case with sturdy padlocks. Ammo in a separate, sturdy locked case.

Any advice in the offering about my situation?

 

[Crawdad1]

Any person carrying a handgun in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person’ is required to have a license to carry or a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit (good only for hunting, fishing, trapping and dog training).
However, no license is required:
(1) to carry a handgun in one’s home or fixed place of business;
(2) when engaged in target shooting or while going to or from shooters’ places of assembly or target practice, provided the firearm is unloaded and the ammunition is carried in a separate container;

It ain't that tough to figure out. It says nothing about a 'Going to a range."

 

[parsimonious_instead]

Thanks for the additional info. It sounds like I'd be OK. Is there a requirement, as they have in NJ, for "no deviations" while *transporting* - ie a stop for coffee, restroom etc?

 

[Crawdad1]

All I know is we stop at diners and restaurants/bars before and after we go hunting all the time as long as the firearm is unloaded and the ammunition stowed away. That's all I know.

Sometimes the cops are in there also and ask us if we got anything.

 

[dragon813gt]

It's not hard. Firearms unloaded and in the trunk. Ammo stored separately. The vehicle being considered concealment is the only hiccup in PA's firearms laws.

And no, we don't have a dumb law like NJ in regards to no deviation going to and from a range.

 

[Steve in PA]

There is no requirement that anything be stored in the trunk.

There are different rules for transporting rifles and handguns.

In order to transport a handgun, without a license to carry firearms, the handgun must be unloaded and the magazine with ammo must be carried in a separate container or pouch. Think of it this way, the handgun and loaded magazine must not be able to physically touch one another. If the magazine is stored in a magazine pouch, then that pouch and handgun can be thrown into the same range bag compartment.

“LOADED.” A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.

You can only transport an unloaded handgun to certain locations, such as back and forth from the place you want to shoot, to the gunsmith, etc. And yes, with regards to a handgun, you are not allowed to deviate from those areas to where an unloaded handgun can be transported to or from. Stopping to eat, visit a friend, etc. is NOT allowed by law. This of course does not apply if you have a license to carry firearms. "Going to or from" does not mean you can drive around with an unloaded handgun in your vehicle. You are limited to when and where you can transport the handgun.

(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

An unloaded rifle or shotgun can be transported anywhere without the need of any type of license and there are no restrictions as to not being able to stop to eat, visit a friend, etc.

 

[dragon813gt]

Open carry is legal w/out a permit. I carried this way until I was 21 and could attain a CCW permit. I wasn't carrying multiple handguns. It went everywhere w/ me.

You are correct about the trunk. I should have said not readily accessible and ammo separate. In all honesty if you were pulled over I doubt you would have any issues unless the firearms were loaded. This is assuming you weren't in Philly or Pittsburgh. Different rules there but that's going away.

 

[Sam1911]

Open carry is legal w/out a permit. I carried this way until I was 21 and could attain a CCW permit. I wasn't carrying multiple handguns. It went everywhere w/ me.

That could be a little misleading.

Open carry is legal without a permit EXCEPT:
1) In Philadelphia where to open carry you must hold a valid Licence.
2) In your car. Carry of a handgun in a vehicle is considered "concealed," period. So you must hold an LCTF (or a carry license from ANY other state regardless of reciprocity) to carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Sam,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't non-resident Pennsylvania permits fairly straightforward to get. Would getting one pretty much resolve the OP's concerns?

 

[Sam1911]

Yes, they are, though they've gotten a little bit more restrictive in the last few years. As a holder of a NYS permit, he should have no trouble getting PA's LCTF as a non-resident.

 

[X-Rap]

Sam, as someone taking up temporary digs in your state I'm anxious to understand what benefit I'd gain by getting a PA non resident permit?

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[Crawdad1]

I can't find any PA court case that defines the statement "Going to or from" and if there is one I'd sure like to see it then I'll be convinced of 'No deviations."

He's not talking about driving around he's talking about stopping for a cup of coffee or using the rest room.

 

[X-Rap]

It sounds like the OP has a permit from NYS so I'm not sure what his concerns are.

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[Onward Allusion]

Like it was mentioned regarding the PA concealed carry permit for a NON-resident, it is fairly easy to get DEPENDING on which County your are in. Some PA Counties require a PA Driver's License. Others say they have 45 days to process your application. It ain't quite a Shall-Issue State in PA for NON-residents. The catch is that all of it must be done in person. How do I know? 'Cause the wife and I just came back from Bellefonte, PA for exactly that purpose.

Funny thing was that 4 individuals came into the Centre County Sheriff's office to apply for their CLP while we were waiting for ours. This was a span of about 15 minutes . . .

 

[1911 guy]

Yeah, Pa. used to do non-resident by mail, if you had a permit from your home state. A few counties did, anyway. Not sure what caused the change, but it is indeed "in person only" now. No more application by mail. Happily for me, Ohio got off it's high horse and the dispute over reciprocity got resolved.

 

[parsimonious_instead]

I appreciate everyone's responses. I have no intention of carting loaded firearms or even loaded magazines around PA. I'm more than happy to keep everything separate, unloaded, etc. I'm not overly concerned about the relatively short drive from the NY border to my friend's house and back - it's so short that I can't conceive of needing gas or a restroom break in the 15-20 mins that it would take. My trip to see him is still gestating - I may wish to add some sightseeing around PA. I suppose I could leave the firearms at his house right up until I circle back to NY if I'm that worried, but he's occasionally called in for extra shifts at work, often on short notice, so the house might be locked and empty as I'm returning home. I'm just trying to be clear before I make the trip so I don't risk accidentally breaking a PA law regarding transport. I do have a NYS Full Carry. A friend of mine told be at this point the Doylestown, PA Sherriff's Office is a good place to apply in person for a PA permit. Is this still the case?

 

[Steve in PA]

The law says "going to or coming from".............meaning, no stops. It doesn't say "going to or coming from" and and "any stop you feel is necessary".

Whether or not a police officer is going to follow the letter of the law is left up to chance. Lacking a license to carry firearms, the places you can travel with an unloaded handgun in your vehicle are very limited.

None of the exceptions lists "stopping for coffee, a quart of milk or a loaf of bread". Stopping for gas or to use a restroom might be deemed an "emergency" and you won't have to worry.

 

[v35]

A friend of mine told be at this point the Doylestown, PA Sherriff's Office is a good place to apply in person for a PA permit. Is this still the case?

Yes.

I can't imagine any other PA county Sheriff's office should be any different though. Coming from the NY border, I wouldn't go that far out of your way.

You should be able to find plenty of parking available on the street. Metered parking is inexpensive.

 

[Sam1911]

Sam, as someone taking up temporary digs in your state I'm anxious to understand what benefit I'd gain by getting a PA non resident permit?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Why have a carry permit? Simplifies transport and carry of a handgun if you're planning to do so.

Why get the non-resident one? Well, if you aren't going to become a PA resident and get the resident one, then that would seem like your other option.

If you already hold a permit or license that is recognized by PA, I'd certainly not bother -- except for the minor quibble that if you'll carry near school property having a license issued by the state you're in takes care of the odd GFSZA problem.

If you hold a permit issued by a state which does NOT get recognized by PA, it is still valid for car carry. You just can't walk around with your weapon concealed, then.

What benefits are you looking for?

 

[X-Rap]

Sorry Sam, looked up the law and found PA doesn't honor all states. Something I read in this thread led me to believe that was the case. My state is recognized.
I thought the GFSZA specified residency rather than state of issue.


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[Sam1911]

Ahhh, gotcha. PA recognizes any state's permit as permission to carry in your car. Unfortunately we don't recognize some states' permits for standard all-'round carry.

GFSZA says you must hold a permit "issued by the state" the school zone is located in. Odd phrasing, that puts a rather pointless burden on the carrier.

Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(B):

[18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A)] does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

...

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

And note that no every state's license or permit might necessarily qualify, even for their own residents. The State has to perform some kind of check to verify that you're qualified. Any states that don't perform a background check, or any state that is "Constitutional carry", wouldn't qualify.

 

[Tom488]

Not sure if it's been specifically stated yet, but PA Title 18 § 6106(b)(11) states that it is lawful (that is, 6106(a) does not apply) for one to possess a handgun (loaded or unloaded) in their vehicle, if they are licensed by any other state.

Since the OP has a NYS carry permit, he is able to keep a handgun in his vehicle, without further restriction. Meaning, he can drive around sightseeing, go shopping, go to the movies, whatever... as long as the handgun stays in the vehicle.

There are no restrictions on unloaded long arms (rifle/shotgun) in a vehicle, regardless of license/permit status - as previously stated.

 

[Crawdad1]

And how exactly does it mean that? Is just states "Going to or from" there is a lot of ambiguity in that statement. And given Pennsylvania leniency towards gun owners I would go with the broad translation until such time a court narrows the definition of, "going to or from" or they insert the phrase, "No deviations."