Paco Kelly - Acu'rzr - application jig- (quite long)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by P95Carry, Apr 11, 2005.

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  1. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Paco Kelly - application jig - for .22 rimfire.


    Ok folks - way back I posted about the Paco Kelly ''Acu'rzr" device - a set of punches and a die/guide - to enable modification of 22 rimfire bullets. A thread in fact started by catfish over a year ago. Go look HERE. The original link to product is HERE

    I played with it a bit but felt that the one potential downside was achieving consistency in use - sure it works but ..... no way to be sure each bullet formed exactly the same. Some folks asked for feedback if I went a stage further (TheFumegator for one) - and this I have now started to do (after way too long!). Let me run you thru this - which is right now very much stage #1, a starting point, after some machining today.

    The prime consideration is, as mentioned, some means of achieving consistency in the reforming of the bullets - a necessity IMO. This therefore suggested to me a need for some form of jig that allows for a uniform impact on the punch - time after time.

    I rumaged in the scrap boxes and selected steel, per the first illustration - which will give you some idea of what is used and approx dimensions. I doubt anything is really too critical - all this was pure convenience. Base and dropper were respectively made from a piece of mild steel - plate and a piece of bar.


    paco-jig-82b-s.jpg


    I drilled out the dropper block 5/8" twice, on 2 1/2" centers and then ran a reamer thru to up the clearance a thou or so.... needing a good sliding fit. The base was drilled and tapped for 7/16" x 20 - again it was convenient - turning down the bar so as to keep a shoulder to help keep bars square to each other - important if a smooth friction-free drop to be possible. Yet to tidy up parts and polish a bit.

    I center-popped the middle of base plate and set that up so I could chuck it and bore a depression - which is approx 3/16" deep and it will be fitted with a thin piece of 1/16"plywood as a safety base - the remainder of the depression taking the 1" guide/die so as to make it default to jig center. The dropper will later have a piece of leather glued to under side, to spare the brass punches - as Paco suggests using a rubber or plastic hammer for the operation - something other than steel anyways!!

    The height required for an adequate result is yet to be determined. This dropper is quite heavy and may well be enough on its own - but it will be easy however if needed - to add a lead ingot atop that - by bolting it down - I'll just drill and tap the block if needed. Somewhere will be the ideal impact load - in fact - if the dropper itself is too much (unlikely) then the drop will simply be started a ways down the guide bars from a witness mark. My original experiments required quite modest taps from a rubber hammer... so hopefully this set-up will be viable... I have even considered a further modifiction, whereby I add a top restraint and impose a compression spring between that and dropper - another way of adding energy if needed.

    So - this is if you like the prototype - and have yet to see if it will do the job. If needs be I'll make a further pair of guide rods and make them longer.... but I think the principle will allow for great consistency - then I can make up some test ammo and go range test it - to see if any benefits. The remaining pics are the device being assembled - the final pic shows the starting point ready for a drop, the round being ''processed'' of course would be within the guide/die piece, with appropriate punch.

    I will report back later with results and mod's if needed - following which further down the line - hopefully some hard data from range testing.


    paco-jig-81-s.jpg



    paco-jig-80-s.jpg



    paco-jig-79-s.jpg
     
  2. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Calling Thefumegator! Wes - trying to keep this up for you see.
     
  3. Newguy1

    Newguy1 Member

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    How much does the "drop Block" weigh? I think the key to the constantcy with this will require a mechanism to drop it from the same place with and the same way every time.

    It looks good.

    Hope you don't mind my 2 cents worth.
     
  4. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Newguy - indeed, consistency is what we are after here. The ''dropper'' block weight is almost exactly 1 1/2 lbs ... and as I said in the description above, if this proves too heavy for a full drop then I will find the exact height required and then add a witness mark - or better still, make a set-screw collar as a limiter.

    It should be possible to reproduce the impact force as good as or better than 99% every time - friction (which is miniscule) is only variable really. I just have to make a plywood base pad and glue a leather or nylon buffer to underside of dropper block.

    I'll try and do some rounds today if time allows and see how it shapes up.
     
  5. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Update -

    I have had a chance to try this out this evening. A 1/16" plywood piece has now been placed in the 1" dia center depression - as a safe base and - the dropper has a 1" x 1/16" hard rubber pad glued to it - to simulate a rubber mallet.

    It turned out that to achieve the degree of change I wanted, I had to do two drops, plus adding a 1 lb lead ingot on top too. Instead of fixing the lead extra weight - I intend to try making longer drop guides. It is a cinch to use tho have to say.

    I did some searching and found I have just two more lengths of 5/8" round bar - tho yet to see if they are true enough to stay parallel with each other.... the dropper must still fall freely. I reckon I can stretch the guides to about 14" with what I have - just need to turn down and thread and polish.

    The current actual effective drop distance is only 3" - from base of dropper to top of brass punch. Longer rods will make this drop more like 9 inches plus. I anticipate the increase in drop, and probably also addition of lead extra weight, should see me getting required results from just one full drop per round modified. We'll see.
     
  6. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Further development info - stage #2 if you will -

    As mentioned above it was clear a 3" drop was inadequate - even with added weight on dropper. I prepared the newly found 5/8" round bar and turned each to allow for the 7/16 x 20 thread at base. Then matched each for length - which was close to 14" useful length and polished sufficient to remove any burrs and get a smooth surface.

    Once each was installed in the base, I then had to make a fine adjustment as they were a few thou plus at the top - on the 2 1/2" centers of the dropper holes. Once this was done and the dropper fell free the whole distance - time to do some tests.... the max drop now being close to 11". I did also add a 1/4" tapped hole on top of dropper - in case I would need a means of securing an extra weight - tho it seems this will not now be needed.

    There are three punches - one that changes the bullet to a partial wad cutter (''dish nose''), another makes a hollow point (''Nastinose") and the third makes a hollow with a central pillar (''Scorp'n). Paco recommends always using the dished nose one first for all changes. I admit - I have tried using the other two directly as well.

    I tested on some solid round nose rounds - just some spare stuff. It was clear that the bullet ''hardness'' does vary slightly from one make to another. A full drop with the dish nose punch was good - gave a very nice effect and was consistent over several of same make. This should make a nice clean hole when paper punching.

    I then tried the other two punches and it was apparent with these that the drop distance could be reduced. I have yet to carry out a full test on these but will probably select lower heights and make witness marks on the guide rods for each ideal position. It works very well - at least - it does what I want! Once I have worked out the drop distances and processed a significant number of rounds, I'll post some more pics of those and then range test when opportunity presents.

    Here is the MkII version, now with the extended guide rods. ....


    paco-jig-84-s.jpg
     
  7. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    So uhm, P95 is now designing European style furniture? :neener:

    Looks nice. So... what's it actually do?
     
  8. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    Its a gizmo for the shooter who has everything as well as a lot of free time. :D
     
  9. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Makes LRN .22lrs into HPs or wadcutters, I think.
     
  10. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Uh.... Why?

    If you are interested in enhancing .22 rimfire accuracy, try Ron Hoehn's barrel tuners.
     
  11. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    P95Carry - very interesting project. I like it!

    I am using one of the Paco tools and am really impressed with it.

    My tool was made by Paco for strictly changing the shape of the bullets nose to the "dish nose"/hollow point (nastinose). NOT to bump up the outside diameter of the bullet as his tools are also designed to do. I get consitent results using a rubber mallet as the tool's instructions say.

    The purpose of the tool (Paco Kelly ''Acu'rzr") is two fold. One, it allows the reshaping of inexpensive solid or HP bullets into a flat point or "SGB" (Small Game Bullet) profile. Most people here I think would agree that a flat point profile .22RF bullet is more lethal than a conventional round nose that most .22RFs come in.

    Secondly his tool allows one to simultaneously "bump up" the outside diameter of the bullet to a consitent size. Not saying that factory ammo is not consistent in this area.

    Many people over on rimfirecentral.com swear that by using a Paco tool on inexpensive .22RF ammo their accuracy increases by anywhere from 0% to 20% or more. There have been no reported decreases of accuracy by usingthe tool.

    Regards,
    Rob
     
  12. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    No offense, Rob, but what is the usefulness of this? I'm not being flip, I'm honestly curious. Rodents or birds?
     
  13. scbair

    scbair Member

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    RevDisk, a lot of small game hunters (myself included) favor the "dished" nose of the Paco'ed rounds over the factory solids, for the added shock on impact; seems to drop the critters a bit more solidly. I could use conventional HPs, of course, but those rounds are too destructive for "meat in the pot." Also, using dish nosed standard velocity rounds over factory high velocity rounds combines good shocking impact with less meat destruction and really top-notch accuracy from my old Remington. A hard to beat combination!

    The Paco tool isn' "necessary," by any means (hey, I hunted for better than 40 years before getting mine), but I find it worthwhile.
     
  14. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

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    wouldn't a cammed lever yield a more predictable down force?
     
  15. scbair

    scbair Member

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    Harry Tuttle,

    Hmmmmm... If a torque wrench-type measuring device were incorporated, for consistency, OR if a "brake" or "stop" (screw-adjustable, maybe) were used, this is certainly food for thought.
     
  16. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    What kind of small game do you shoot with your .22?
    The only small game I shoot with a .22 is squirrels and a lot of them- all head shots with standard velocity ammo, never had one that didn't fall dead from a tree in a twitching fit. I only head shoot them because if you wound them otherwise, they can crawl into a hole or a nest and you'll never see them again. Hit them in the head, and even if they are caught in a 'Y" crotch of a tree, if you wait a moment, their death twitch will cause them to roll or jump out.

    I never hunted rabbits with a .22- I use a 20 guage to hit them on the run.
    Its not legal to shoot turkeys, grouse or pheasants in my state with a .22.

    When I hunt coyotes, I use a centerfire.

    I guess I can see the advantage of a flat shocking bullet for shooting pests like porcupines, woodchucks, or beavers, but I'm not going to eat any of those, so CCI stingers work well enough for those.
     
  17. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Chris - re the ''usefulness''. Some points have already been made but hey - it is far from an ''essential'' tool at all! Rather, it is a means of modifying existing ammo such that either the bullets perform better for a kill or, simply, cut cleaner holes in paper. Plus a supposed (yet to test and confirm) increase in accuracy. Thus my quest (mostly outa interest) for a consistent resuly every time of tool use.

    I have to say from past experience on rabbits - round nose solids are lousy for a quick kill - and HP's usually were my choice but I think the wad-cutter profile will also do well.

    Harry - I made a point earlier re a press .... apart from finding a way to accurately measure and display force - I do think that this tool's principle of operation is based on inertial impact. The lead deforms relatively easily but IMO best under sudden impact. Sustained pressure from a lever type device would I think put more stress into the whole round without getting the required results.

    Whatever - this is just an experiment for me - a means of making the device work more reliably and consistently. We managed fine without it and still can!! I'll post some pics later of some ''processed'' rounds.
     
  18. scbair

    scbair Member

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    Quote from crackedbutt: "What kind of small game do you shoot with your .22?"

    Mostly squirrels; the occasional bunny (bunnies are much less tough to drop quickly than are squirrels, though), sometimes vermin removal (raccoons & opossums that make nuisances of themselves, but I ain't worried about meat loss there, as I don't kill them for the pot).

    I usually go for head shots, but won't pass up a thorax shot if the head isn't visible. I agree with your experiences, especially using standard velocity solids. I really notice improved effectiveness with the dishnose rounds and body shots; it's more like slugging them right off the limb than the unaltered rounds have ever done.
     
  19. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    OT:minor thread highjack...

    Don't know about possum but you're missing some mighty fine eatin' when it comes to coon.

    Coon cooked in a big ole covered pot with red wine, coarse ground black pepper, a bit of salt and a bit of cinnamon for about 4 or 5 hours is some mighty good eatin'! Yummmmmmmmmm - YUM! :D
     
  20. scbair

    scbair Member

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    Grief, Werewolf! After all that cookin', do ya throw away the coon and eat the pot?? :neener: Just kiddin'!

    Actually, I have eaten raccoon on one occasion. When I was young (pre-teen), my uncle and I were hunting squirrels & rabbits; happened upon a 'coon, and I did what came naturally to a young hunter, and bagged it. I was quite proud of myself, and showed it to Dad upon my return . . . and immediately recognized my error. :( Dad was of the firm opinion there were only two reasons to kill a critter: (1) It was a nuisance or danger (raiding the chickenhouse, rabid, etc.) or, (2) To eat! :what: His next comment was to the effect that he doubted the raccoon had been a nuisance or threat, way up in that tree in the middle of the swamp!

    Yep, I was directed to skin & dress the raccoon, and Mom was directed (although I think Dad hadda pay for that one!) to cook it. Not bad, but a bit coarse & gamey. I've never again killed a li'l bandit that didn't somehow force the issue with me . . .

    Now, 'possums . . . I confess I've never eaten one, myself, mainly because I'm familiar with what they eat (that is, ANYTHING; like four-legged vultures!). However, Mom and Dad told me that, during the Great Depression, when food (particularly meat) was scarce, 'possum was considered a treat. The trick was to capture one alive, cage it, feed it clean table scraps for about 2 weeks, then butcher it, surround it with sweet potatoes, and bake it. Yum! (Or so I'm told.)

    OK, that was pretty far off-topic; to bring the thread back, I'm sure a Paco-ized dishnose would have dispatched the 'possum quite handily! :D
     
  21. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    As promised - some ''processed'' rounds!! These are tho spare assorted rounds from bottom of range bag - ones picked up during pin shoot sessions. I did sort them up to a point and so - here is what we have ....

    Nearest two rows - 10 rounds of Fed' ''Champion'' HV round nose solids - treated with the dish nose to make a sorta semi wadcutter. Overall fairly consistent but - not all quite identical 100%. So my measured drop still no total guarantee of absolute uniformity tho - I'd hazard a guess - probably has to be better than a hand done mallet job.

    Next row of five - Rem solids - pretty consistent.

    Next two apart from each other were to show what happens using the hollow-point punch (''nastynose'') straight away - The copper coated was a HP already and so we have a wider and deeper HP after treatment. The plain lead to its left was a solid - good HP but a tad shallower, same width.

    Next two are where dish nose has been used and then the HP punch - looks a good result - be interesting to see a kill result.

    Finally - top two - the left hand one is after two drops of dish nose - almost a full wad cutter. Next to it - the results from using the ''Scorp'n'' ...... after dish punch - a partial hollow point with center pillar. Another result that could do with ''kill'' assessment.


    paco-bullets-88-s.jpg

    Range tests still to be done - when I can.

    .
     
  22. Infidel

    Infidel Member

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    This is a really great thread, and I muchly appreciate your posting the pictures and your results. I would be most interested in how the Acu'rzr affects your accuracy. After all, it is called an "accurizer" with funky spelling.

    I've been wanting to get going on a little experiment along these lines, to see if Acu'rzr'd relatively cheap ammo will shoot well enough in an old .22 to use the rifle for rimfire silhouette. As yet, I haven't done anything on it. My plan was to get one of the Acu'rzr thingies and try to rig up a consistent drop fixture like you have done, only I don't have much in the way of tools for metalworking, so I was thinking of a wooden gizmo with a pivoting arm for the "hammer" part.

    Thank you a bunch for the information and inspiration.
     
  23. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Infidel - thx for comments. This is very much a ''fun'' experiment but - seeing as I had put some effort into the whole thing - seemed worth sharing. This is part of what a good gun board is about - dissemination of info.

    As said - yet to find time for a range test - but soon as I can I'll at very least - put 10 std rounds on a target and then 10 of same, modified - and see if any accuracy improvements. Being a cynic (LOL) I doubt that much of a bonus but - I do think the dish nose is probably gonna be a better varmint/small critter kill profile as well as making cleaner holes in paper.

    If you don't have much access to metal working gear then I think you could well make something as you suggest. Make a solid wood base and a pillar - then at top (maybe 12" or more) pivot a hammer/mallet - and so when you raise said mallet to pre-determined height - drop it on the punch/die combination. I think that could work almost as well as my set-up.... except ...

    Main thing you need to be careful of is - making the final impact center on the punch - a mallet pivotted will perforce prescribe an arc and so not be falling to impact the puch normal to it (90º). This was why I went the way I did.... parallel gravity drop.

    You could perhaps - use fat dowels set in a hardwood and heavy base board - and then make a wooden ''dropper'' but gain weight for that by adding lead ballast. It could work in a similar fashion to mine but - it is important that the guide rods do not impose excessive friction on the dropper. If a wood assembly then more over-size holes in the dropper may be needed and - an addition of silicon lube too - all to keep friction minimized.

    Fun tho ain't it!! :)
     
  24. BHPshooter

    BHPshooter Member

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    Awesome report, thanks Chris. :) I wanted to tag this, since it's bedtime. :D

    Wes
     
  25. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    RevDisk asked - “ what is the usefulness of this? I'm not being flip, I'm honestly curious. Rodents or birds?”

    I think that the question has been addressed by others already. Hopefully answering the question to your satisfaction. But to maybe help clarify and expand upon some points made.

    The Paco Kelly tool was originally designed to “bump” up the outside diameter of a .22RF bullet to a more uniform dimension than sometimes occurs with factory ammo (specifically budget/promo ammo). This is done through the use of a die and punch as pictured in several places in this thread.

    The purpose of the bump is to increase accuracy. A side effect of using the punch and die method is that the bullet gets deformed or formed into a flat nose or more appropriately a dish (concave) nose profile. There are also 2 other punches available. One that makes a hollow point, and another that makes something along the lines of a very low profile “hydra shok” bullet. This last punch is called the ''Scorp'n”.

    The dish nose only modified bullet profile is very similar to the CCI Small Game Bullet (SGB) profile. The SGB design has been proven more successful in cleanly killing animals than more conventional round nose or arguably hollow point bullets. The optimum modified shape in my opinion is a combination of the dish nose and hollow point creating a SGB nose profile with a very large hollow point.

    What kind of game will these modified bullets cleanly kill?! Generally speaking, I don’t think that they are suitable for anything bigger than what is conventionally hunted with a .22 RF cartridge. However, the modified bullets are more lethal than all equivalent unmodified bullets.

    For example let’s say that we start with a generic factory solid (round nose) high velocity or hollow point round such as the Federal Lightning or Champion. By using the Paco tool with its dish nose and hollow point punches we are creating a hybrid bullet shape that will more cleanly kill whatever animal is shot. Versus using the same bullet that hasn’t been modified. This has been proven over and over again by the good folks on rimfirecentral.com and probably by some right here.

    Paco Kelly the tools maker has done some testing and posted his results at the link given.

    I have been using a Paco Tool on and off since last September or October. I have been very impressed by the re shaped bullets and feel that if ones gun can cycle them reliably they will perform much better than unmodified bullets.

    What P95Carry is trying to do is create a uniform way to exert the same amount force on the forming rods. I really like him bringing this project forward. I will stay tuned for further updates. Some users of the tool feel that by following the factory instructions of hitting the forming rod with a rubber mallet they can not get the same amount of force applied to the bullets repetitively. This of course would result in all bullets not being the same shape – very close but not as close as possible. I have also some minor concerns in this area. But, I don’t think that the slight variance here is any problem at all. I have visually inspected reformed bullets and while I have noticed some slight variances, they are not outside the variances one would find by opening and inspecting any bulk box of bargain ammo.


    Regards,
    Rob
     
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