Parking lot interviews?

[teknical]

Though I haven't been mugged yet (knock on wood), I'm sick of getting (what I feel is) interviewed in parking lots, and after having read most of Marc MacYoung's stuff (http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/fringe.html#mugging), long ago, I view the sort of contact people are making with me as a precursor to mugging/violence.

After a bunch of people have interviewed me, over time, in parking lots in Tucson, AZ, I'd like to share some common threads I've observed- the things that set my alarm bells off, in the order in which it seems to happen:

1. Abnormal Movement: The suspect is moving in directions not normally taken by customers walking to/from their cars. Regular customers tend to walk down the lengths of aisles in parking lots, minimizing both the time they're moving between vehicles and the total time they're in the lot. People that have interviewed me were doing the opposite: a lot of movement bewteen vehicles, rather than down aisles, moving perpendicular to the main lot aisles. Most seem to be in constant motion and not moving very fast, which is perfect for blending in. Standing in one place for too-long sticks out and running also sticks out, but constantly moving, slowly, is camoflage in a parking lot. Only very few I've seen camped at a particular spot, like a cart return. Most that are just to the side of the door seem to be encamped there, look like they're homeless, and get right to the point ("Do you have any change?").

2. Improper Eye Contact: Usually the suspect is actively scanning and is looking to lock eyes with someone/anyone. Most people will make momentary eye contact and then avert. All the people that have interviewed me have locked their eyes on me, never averting. Makes me feel like they have a missle lock.

3. Verbal Contact: People don't usually talk to random people in parking lots. The interviewers all started asking for something or other.

4. Closing Distance: Combined with the eye and verbal contact, they've made their excuse to start closing distance.

Because these guys are essentially hiding in the parking lot, using it for concealment, I keep running into them ~10-15yd away, even though I couldn't be any more alert. As I'm looking around, I see someone who seems out of place, and shortly after, they lock eyes on me and start approaching. The next thing is them spouting some BS story.

Some personal stories:
Depending on the situation, I've reacted differently. Once, after loading up the trunk, with the driver door open and just about to get in, I do a final look-see and see a big scummy-looking Indian (Native Amercian) ~10yd away, walking directly towards me from behind, locking eyes on me as I see him, who starts asking me something once he sees that I see him. Knowing that I had already scanned the whole area, he seemingly came out of nowhere. Between that, his size, and the distance, I had a major knee-jerk gut-reaction. Coming from campus, I didn't have my carry weapon on me, but I did have a flashlight, which I pulled out to have something in my hand. Only, like I said, I knee-jerk'ed it. I never realized I could/would "draw" it so quickly, and him seeing me "draw" something stopped him in his tracks, which I never intended. The guy just stopped and froze while I was telling him to back off. He then starts muttering how he wasn't going to blah blah blah and heads off in another direction.

Another time was earlier today, the reason I decided to post. A white guy is going around and aggressively trying to sell his BS story to people, wanting money. I see him as he's zig-zagging through cars, already too-close to me, he locks eyes, and starts trying to sell his BS to me. He was the most aggressive/active I've ever met and did not keep his distance, which forced me to move (back up) on him, which seemed to confuse him. He decided I wasn't an easy target and went off for the next-closest person to me.

Strategy:
Before anyone says it, I'm stuck where I am until I'm academically/financially able to move. I'd like to be out of here, ASAP, but in the meantime, I have to deal with this stuff. Now it seems easy to avoid this stuff, but in practice, it isn't. If I can avoid eye-contact with them, they may not even target me, right? But eye-contact is one thing that confirms they're a problem, in the first place. Once I see that they're trouble, if I look away, it seems like it would be interpreted as fear. Once they do lock on to me, I could also just move away from them, right? But I can't let them out of my sight and I don't want to seem like I'm running away. I also can't just drop my bags or cart on a whim. If need-be, sure, but not for everyone that walks up to me in a parking lot. If they're far enough away, the best I've come up with is barking at them, but it doesn't work closer-in. So there repeats this cycle I've described that I can't seem to get out of.

What I've all described can be labled as "panhandling," but from the looks of these people, I don't want to take any chances. Besides, how can you tell the difference between panhandling and an interview?

 

[JamisJockey]

Before anyone says it, I'm stuck where I am until I'm academically/financially able to move. I'd like to be out of here, ASAP, but in the meantime, I have to deal with this stuff. Now it seems easy to avoid this stuff, but in practice, it isn't. If I can avoid eye-contact with them, they may not even target me, right? But eye-contact is one thing that confirms they're a problem, in the first place. Once I see that they're trouble, if I look away, it seems like it would be interpreted as fear. Once they do lock on to me, I could also just move away from them, right? But I can't let them out of my sight and I don't want to seem like I'm running away. I also can't just drop my bags or cart on a whim. If need-be, sure, but not for everyone that walks up to me in a parking lot. If they're far enough away, the best I've come up with is barking at them, but it doesn't work closer-in. So there repeats this cycle I've described that I can't seem to get out of.

What I've all described can be labled as "panhandling," but from the looks of these people, I don't want to take any chances. Besides, how can you tell the difference between panhandling and an interview

Move!
LOL JK
I've had the same experiences in high end shopping centers as well as iffy neighborhoods. Its a pattern of predators to go where the prey are.
The first thing I think you're doing right is making determined eye contact. When they realize they're no longer have the element of surprise, you've disarmed them considerably.
There is not a difference between a panhandler and an "interview". People who are desperate enough to ask for money in a parking lot are usually unpredictable.

 

[kb2iaw]

Ive learned a lesson years ago that still works today ...Before i moved to a gentler area , i used to carry two or three plastic bags (grocery store type) with one or two golf ball sized rocks in them going into the shopping mall ....When leaving the supermarket i always put one item ,like a can of frozen juice in a seperate bag on top of the cart ... NO body can ever know whats coming ...i think you got the idea .

 

[buck00]

Good post. The body language of a perp often gives him away. You'll notice a lot of scum bags wandering around at train stations doing this- sort of drifting around and reading people. On the flip side- a good law-abiding citizen is usually walking from A to B, not wandering aimlessly and trying to make eye contact to feel people out.

Although there are less and less pay phones around these days (due to cell phones) I still notice potential perps love to loiter at pay phones as they set up shop and "interview" people walking by.

Always be aware of your surroundings.

 

[The Cavalry]

This is an excellent writeup on the "interview" process, and it's a keeper all by itself. Thanks for taking time to post it.

 

[jeepmor]

Assuming your a college student with a CCW first off. I assume you cannot carry on campus and probably are not allowed to even have your CCW in your car on campus. My thinking on that is that you simply ignore the car rule and keep your CCW in your car while attending class. Sure, there is more risk, but as soon as you are off campus, you can carry your CCW w/o issue. If you choose this route, no one can know you bring it on campus, and I mean NO ONE. Not your girl or friends, absolutely no one, period. This is a real risk, but if you are careful, it's nothing. Many of us that lived on campus in my college days had 22 rifles that we plinked when we could. Of course, no guns were allowed in the dorms. We kept them in our car trunks and were just damn careful that we did not let anyone know we had them and that was that. There were at least 4 or 5 of us that did this and we never had any problems. If you dump you ccw into a glove box or console before your on campus, there is no reason anyone should ever catch wind of this. As a side note, make sure you do not put it is the same compartment that you keep your registration in.

I prefer a clip style IWB holster for just this reason. Should I have to go into the post office or what have you, I just slip it off and dump it in my console. Sure, some will say you could be the victim of a car break in and someone will steal your gun. Okay, that's a reasonable arguement. But if you have an ugly old escort like I did in college, the chances of getting your car broken into are quite low. Plus, I never keep anything of value in sight in my car anyway as a personal habit. Not even my engineering calculator was kept in my car, not even a book. These were all kept in my bookbag which was carried with me everywhere on campus.

I can't say I've ever had this problem, but being over 6' tall and 220lbs puts me into a category that keeps most would be panhandlers away simply with a "leave me alone you POS" look. You might want to practice this look a bit more, give it a chance at least. However, it also sounds like you do practice this approach, so what next. You could remind said panhandler that "loitering is illegal and I don't want the hassle of going back into the store so they call the cops and have you run off now do you, please leave me alone." By immediately showing a confrontational attitude, most people will simply look for a softer target. Make yourself look like a hard target. When approached, become verbally agressive.

Beyond that, you live near a college and this stuff is pretty normal. I remember a couple years after my wife and I graduated college we were camping and happened to land in the campground that one of the nearby colleges decided to stay at. I mean something like 300 college students having a huge bonfire and nearly all of them getting stupid drunk. None were a threat, but boy o' boy did these punks try to panhandle some beers from us. I heard it all. "my friend over there said you were the guy I could beer from", "someone said you have some cigarettes"... and so on. I simply laughed at them, told them they were full of horse hockey and sent them packing. I never had to be agressive in my tone, actually, I took more of a mocking tone, and it seems to really work well for me.

Not sure if this helps much, but it's sure worked for me. And the bag full of something to whack someone's melon if the need should arise is pretty good advice too. Although, I'd lean more towards a knife that you could keep clipped on your waistband where you can draw it while said panhandler would think your reaching for your wallet. If your pulling it out, you no longer have a panhandler, you now have a BG and showing your willingness to defend yourself will very likely send them beating cheeks the opposite direction.

 

[Rokyudai]

I read a similar account of a young, fast-food worker who had to deal with real winners who dove into the shallow end of the gene pool while at work. While being vagrants in the restaraunt, they constantly verbally harassed the young people. This young worker thwarted a verbal assault by spouting 'nonsense language' and falling to the ground yelling "Daddy why do you yell at me!" to them. The bums backed off and left in a flurry of confusion. If they think you can't understand them or speak English, they leave you alone (in theory) confused. It was funny when I read it the first few times but the "speaking in tounges" thing actually works.

 

[mpmarty]

Funny, I am sixty eight years old and work downtown were panhandlers and bums congregate. I'm five foot nine and weigh around one seventy and do not have any food blisters. When my dew (distant early warning) goes off I find that looking right in their eyes and squaring off to face them with a F**K OFF stare causes them to do a one eighty and beat feet the other way. If they keep coming I reach inside my jacket under my left arm with my right hand and continue my eye contact. I've never had one not do the one eighty then. Actually my weapon is IWB cross draw at about ten thirty.

 

[Vanderbilt]

I find that listening to German dance-metal (eg. Rammstein - it's all about the testosterone) very loudly in the car is an excellent deterrent to stoplight panhandlers. The insanely heavy guitar riffs, intense pounding bass, and the gutteral German language always cause panhandlers to "skip" my car in their quest for an easy buck. The odd thing is that I'm usually well-dressed, clean shaven, and on my way to/from work - but maybe that makes me seem like a potential Patrick Bateman from American Psycho (although I'm probably as harmless as Bud Fox in reality). All I know is that it's a good deterrent, though not as good as slipping one's hand beneath one's coat and making hostile eye-contact...

 

[Vanderbilt]

SORRY (double post)

 

[Whirlwind06]

If you can't carry or leave you handgun in the car while on school.
Don't go shopping after class. Go home re-arm, then go do your shopping. Or drive out the a nice suburban shopping center.

 

[The Cavalry]

I find that listening to German dance-metal (eg. Rammstein - it's all about the testosterone) very loudly in the car is an excellent deterrent to stoplight panhandlers.

...suddenly visualizes Deiter behind the wheel saying "Vilkommen to Schprockets, now eez vhere vee DANCE!!"...

 

[sacp81170a]

In addition to making eye contact and not looking away, quickly scan their waistline and watch their hands out of the corner of your eye. If they approach, blade your body with the strong side away from them. They all know this particular body language, and it screams, "Cop!" I see other cops doing this all the time and notice myself doing it, since we get it drilled into our heads from day one on the job and in training. The particular types of people we interact with frequently also recognize it immediately. It generally makes the guys you are referring to in your excellent post try to be somewhere else very quickly. It also helps if you have something concealed on your strong side that they don't want to deal with.

Case in point, I had one guy come at me in the parking lot of a grocery store just like the aggressive guy you were describing. I bladed my body, put my strong hand on my hip and said firmly, "You need to back off." It was like turning off a light switch. The bluster and loud comments ceased immediately and the guy turned on a dime and headed directly away from me, looking back occasionally to see if I was following. I stood there and let him go, cursing at myself because I had neglected to carry a pistol to the store that day. That won't happen again!

 

[Vanderbilt]

Go ahead punk, knock on my window...make my day:

(Rammstein lead singer looking uncharacteristically civilized)

I think part of the battle involves looking like you'll take no nonsense from anyone. To throw a question out there: How do you generally go achieve a no-nonsense look (aside from the ominous bulge at your waste or in your front pocket)?

 

[RioShooter]

I am most frequently approached in a Wal-Mart parking lot. My technique is to reach into my pocket a grab hold of a few dollar bills. Then I hand the person the money before they have to beg for it. I've handed-out hundreds of dollars over the years.

I've never been threatened. I was only touched once; a young woman broke down in tears and hugged me after I gave her $60 because she didn't have a place to stay for the night.

Whenever I see someone who is down and out, the phrase that comes to mind is, "there, but for the grace of God, go I."

 

[Geno]

I especially like those random people who walk up to me and my family, sharing their hardship story..."My friends was supposed to meet me here, but he had an emergency in Detroit!" Yah dah, yah dah, yah dah. By the time they reach me, I'm sick of them and retort, "What do you want?!" as I stand there a hand on my pocket CCW. It always turns into "I don't have any money...my friend has my money."

 

[wheelgunslinger]

RioShooter: Bless you, sir.

Treating the homeless like human beings is a respectable course of action. Just because someone is begging isn't a reason to go condition orange or red on them.

When I was in college, I used to tell homeless people that I was the poorest person they had met all day. Numerous times, they dug in their own pockets and tried to give me money. Which was ironic as heck.

Of course, I'm not immune to the idea that there are scam artists and muggers in the homeless community. I've dealt with a lot of homeless in various cities and only had one confrontation in Chattanooga Tennessee where I felt like I was in danger. Because I was.
I faced him down and then listened to his hardluck story. When he was done, I crossed the street to the restaurant I was going to, ordered, ate, ordered him some food, and then gave it to him on the way back to my Hotel. He was ready to mug someone for food. So, I fed him and kept someone else safe who wasn't a gun toting rugby player.

Everything doesn't end that well though.
In my teens, I knew a guy who hung out in parking decks in Charlotte wearing a suit asking people to give him a jumpstart. His car was just around the corner. And, then he'd get close and whack them with a pair of knucks and take their money.

It's hard to know the difference when you're confronted with someone. I prefer to default to being open to helping people. I know what hard times are and know how something small can help someone get their life turned around.

 

[mpmarty]

Rio Shooter, in some areas of the southwest what you do is a crime. It encourages the very type of begging that can easily escalate to violence if the victem is passive enough or gives other signs of weakness. It is nice to hand out dollars to make yourself feel better but in the long run it just exacerbates the societal problem.

 

[TallPine]

If they think you can't understand them or speak English, they leave you alone (in theory) confused. It was funny when I read it the first few times but the "speaking in tounges" thing actually works.

Chan eil mi a' thuigsinn. Chan eil Beurla agam. A bheil Gàidhlig agad?

 

[Popov]

"To throw a question out there: How do you generally go achieve a no-nonsense look (aside from the ominous bulge at your waste or in your front pocket)?"

Well I do have... Oh, sorry, not THAT "front pocket"!

But really, where I live, I understand both arguments presented in this thread.

There are people who are truely in need of a helping hand.

Personal Experience: There is a man who occasionally hangs around gas stations in my part of town and asks for money. He is calm and respectable about it. He will keep his distance and kindly ask if you have anything that you can spare. I personally feel for this man, as he is always tired and skinny, and he has one eye, and an empty socket. Yeah, it's "gross", and I see him walking the streets with the socket covered, head down in shame. Honestly if I had any significant amount of money to spare, or if I had the proper connections, I would help this man to get a glass eye and some treatment. I don't, so I'll always give him whatever I can. I even go out of my way when I have spare change, just so I can get this man something to eat for the day.

BUT...

There are TOO MANY of the other type around here...

We have the "professional" type: They all have a story. I have met several of these guys in the same day. "My car has broken down, that's it over there (points to a car across the street). All I need is $5.47 (it's always specific) to get a _______. Do you know what a ____ is? Yeah, I could tell that you would understand. Can you help me?"
Me: Sorry, I can't help you.
"Oh, then could you give me a ride to (Autozone, NAPA, etc.)? " Note that this was three times in two days. The first time my lady was with me at a bar after a party (I wasn't drinking, actually, I was driving). That REALLY got me on DEFCON 1. Luckily, her friend acted like she was sick and drunk so the situation was de-escilated. The next time I saw the guy, he jumped out from behind the menu at Taco-Hell, way too close for comfort. That was one of those "calls" that we all have to make. I gave him the "look" and had my hand on my weapon (out of sight), and told him to back off. He regurgitated the same story, but luckily he got the message and went away.

Then there are the "interviewers". I have had too many for comfort. You have to stand strong and prepare yourself, there is no other way. I thank God that I was able to persuade them otherwise, without having to draw or shoot. When living in this part of the world, one has to keep their witts about them, stay prepared, and have a means of defending themselves, or the worst can happen very quickly. Luckily I am a "big" guy, and I have the means to project that "presence" that says I'm not an easy target. I hope that it continues to work, but I still carry a means to protect myself and my loved ones.

Stay safe,

Popov

 

[kungfuhippie]

I quit giving to beggars the day I sat at lunch and watched a guy who ever day begged on the same freeway offramp receive some sort of bill from 53 cars in less than an hour. Many of the cars gave multiple bills. He was making more than I was if he got that kind of cash during the three daily rush hours. The icing on the cake was when at the end of the lunch hour hopped the fence and got into he car and drove off.
There are community centers, shelters, and soup kitchens that help folks. I give to them, and when I used to work in Riverside I gave to frank because he was honest, he'd tell me when he wanted beer or food, I'd buy him either. Great guy, just too messed up mentally to work.
The trick is to stare them down. They realize you are not a sheep at that moment. My other trick is to put my right hand in my pocket. I'm left handed, but my phone is in that pocket. Seeing a big guy like me stare at them with the F-YOU look and my right hand going for something in my pocket makes most change course quickly.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Chan eil mi a' thuigsinn. Chan eil Beurla agam. A bheil Gàidhlig agad?

BWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Tallpine,
I can only imagine some homeless guy's consternation at being responded to in Gaelic!
I may try that sometime. I've been taking the Gaelic course on the BBC website.

 

[teknoid]

I used to live in Illinois, and worked downtown a lot. I also took the EL when I did. I never "donated" to the panhandlers, but I did give to the ones who set up instruments as street performers. Some of them were quite good, and were working for their money. The guys looking for the cash to buy the next bottle, lost out.

As for the rules... I'm often guilty of the first two, myself. I always seem to pick the wrong lane on the way back to the car, and eye contact with people in the vicinity is a given.

 

[TallPine]

I've been taking the Gaelic course on the BBC website.

"Beag air Bheag", nach eil?

 

[bill larry]

Great advice here so far...

If you are around enough homeless people or panhandlers I think after a while you get to the point where you can figure out immediately who is a threat and who's not.

I spent last year in Boston going to college and have never been panhandled so much in my life. Because I'm not rich, there were very very few I would ever give anything to.

I also had a part time job at a liquor store, so I not only saw these guys on the street but at work as well. They all knew they couldn't BS me since I saw where their money was going. BTW, some (not all) but some of those guys were making a great living panhandling.

I did get attacked once at work in the liquor store by a homeless guy I had never seen before.

The ones that are new to an area are the ones to watch out for.

I refused to sell to him since he was obviously smashed at 10 in the morning. He picked up a wine bottle from our rack and threw it at me, then attempted to come around the counter. If I had been able to properly defend myself in Boston, that guy would've gotten shot. Instead, I ate a bottle of wine with my head and then got in a knock down drag out with him until a coworker came to my aid. Lots of stitches.

Pay attention to the loiterers in places where you go. Keep track of them, you will often see the same people over and over. Anyone new is a danger. They are are out of their territory.