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Passing CCW tests - too easy or too hard?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Logistar, Jun 22, 2003.

?

How do you feel about the difficulty level of CCW "tests"?

  1. I think the written and firing line tests should be MUCH tougher.

    7 vote(s)
    13.7%
  2. I think the written and firing line tests should be a little tougher.

    9 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. I think the written and firing line tests are about right.

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  4. I think the written and firing line tests should be a little easier.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Forget any kind of test. If I am not a felon, gimme that CCW!

    34 vote(s)
    66.7%
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  1. Logistar

    Logistar Guest

    When I went to my CCW class there were some people there that probably SHOULDN'T be carrying a gun in public. :what: (This was mentioned in another thread.)

    I just wondered what you guys thought about the level of knowledge and proficiency someone should have to demonstrate before they get their license.

    Is the verbal test and the firing test about right, too easy, or too difficult? What do you think?
     
  2. Min

    Min Member

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    I vote forget test. I mean, Small Government, man!
     
  3. pax

    pax Member

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    In Washington state, there is no training requirement.

    Oregon has a very similar demographic profile to Washington, and does have a training requirement.

    CCW statistics are roughly similar in both states. In both states, misuse of a gun by a CCW holder is vanishingly rare.

    The only statistical area where Oregon and Washington diverge is the number of CCW holders. Oregon has fewer.

    In other words, the only apparent effect caused by mandatory training is to reduce the number of CCW holders.

    Hmmm.

    pax

    You have the right to remain helpless. Should you choose to waive this right, anything you do may be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an assailant. If you cannot find one for yourself, the court will release one for you. -- Steve Munden, quoted by Jeff Cooper in his commentaries
     
  4. Min

    Min Member

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    We don't need no stinkin tests!

    If anyone wants to live a long happy life, they'll know enough to get training with their firearm. They don't need the govt to mandate that. If they don't know that...well...
     
  5. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    If innocence until guilt is proven is the law of the land, I have to believe we need to trust firearms owners' competence unless there's clear evidence to the contrary.

    Vermont- and Alaska-style C.C.W. should be the law of the land.
     
  6. CZ 75 BD

    CZ 75 BD Member

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    Here in Alabamastan...

    our test is real hard. Ya have to reach the counter with yer money! :p;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2003
  7. chetrogers

    chetrogers Member

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    A lady at my work got hers "Oregon" she had to take a safety class and then go through the usuall waiting period..She never had to touch a gun to get her's..IM gonna get mine soon
     
  8. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Golly Pax, that drawing that statistical conclusion is the same as saying that gun control works becasue japan has less gun crime thatn the us..

    WilddontforgetthepeoplesrepublicofportlandAlaska
     
  9. pax

    pax Member

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    WildididntforgetportlandbutyouforgotseattleAlaska --

    Catch the word "apparent"? It was there for a reason.

    pax

    We are getting into semantics again. If we use words, there is a very grave danger they will be misinterpreted. -- H. R. Haldeman, testifying in his own defense
     
  10. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Apparently I didnt :)

    WildshallwecomparecrimeratesAlaska
     
  11. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    So now mandatory CCW training reduces crime rates?

    That's kind of a stretch, don't you think?
     
  12. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Apparently all statistical analysis is.....:D

    Actually, I was referring to the crime rate in WA with more CCWs vis a vis the crime rate in Oregon with less CCWs...

    WildfiguresdontliebutliarsfigureseeTedKennedyAlaska
     
  13. pax

    pax Member

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    Ah. Apparently you didn't catch the part of my post where I mentioned, "Oregon has a very similar demographic profile to Washington..."

    That included per-capita crime rates, which are roughly similar.

    pax
     
  14. Minute_Of_Torso

    Minute_Of_Torso Member

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    The only test I had to pass here in WA state was whether or not I could sign my name on my check in order to pay the fees.

    I would have a SERIOUS problem if someone told me I need to pass a test before I could CCW. :cuss:

    That's grounds for moving, IMHO.
     
  15. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    2001...Seattle is 3.1...Portland is 2.4...

    Ergo, lesser numbers of concealed carries equals a lower crime rate..

    Now Seattle has more Starbucks than Portland so that could have something to do with it too....

    Cofee control not gun control....

    Wildandanchorageis3.8Alaska
     
  16. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    Please, please, please tell me that you don't really think that there is any corellation at all. :uhoh:
     
  17. Idaho

    Idaho Member

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    What test?
     
  18. pax

    pax Member

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    Wild --

    Go back a few years, comparing the rates as you go. You'll find that OR and WA regularly land within a couple points on the scales, sometimes trading places.

    Like I said, there's not a dime's worth of difference in the demographics nor the carry laws of the two states, with the one exception of Oregon having a training requirement and Washington not having one.

    Oregon does have fewer CCW holders, though -- probably as a direct result of the added expense and hassle of the training requirement.

    Oh, the non-difference in crime rates? It means criminals don't care whether it's 1 in 6 or 1 in 10.

    pax

    Criminal arrestees experience high levels of firearm victimization. Over half report being threatened with a gun and 42 percent have been shot at with a gun. -- National Institutes of Justice. NIJ Research Preview: Arrestees and Guns: Monitoring the Illegal Firearms Market, September 1995
     
  19. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Well statistically there is, isnt there???

    Or are we gonna treat stats like the antis do, ignore those we dont like?

    Or are we gonna treat ALL s tatistics with a healthy dose of skeptiscism?

    And by the way, Amherst NY has the lowest murder rate in the country and is in NY...hence draconian gun control works, neh?

    WildoyesthenumberAlaska
     
  20. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Really? How about all the other factors...maybe Oregon has less gun owners...more liberal democrats...higher rate of illiteracy..less fear of crime....less Starbucks coffee...eat more asparagus...

    Maybe Oregonians just dont care to carry...maybe they carry illegally..

    Just trying to point out that post hoc ergo propter hoc is not always the way to go...

    WildasparaguscontrolAlaska
     
  21. pax

    pax Member

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    Good grief, Wild. Apparently you probably didn't see any qualifiers in any of the statements I put up ... nor did you understand the meaning of the statement that OR and WA have "roughly similar demographics."

    I'm done. Sleep well.

    pax

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. -- Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
     
  22. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    You too.... it was fun. Im gone for a while, off to NYC where I will PROBABLY get mugged because APPARENTLY i cant carry even my NAA there...

    WildbonvoyageAlaska
     
  23. JPM70535

    JPM70535 Member

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    I don't believe 2A stipulates any mandatory training as a prerequisite for RKBA. That being the fact, I can't really answer the question posed.

    As a retired LEO I naturally believe that anyone who handles a firearm should have a thorough working knowledge of its controls and operation, but then again it's just good common sense.

    THOSE WHO BEAT THEIR GUNS INTO PLOWS,

    WILL PLOW FOR THOSE WHO DON'T!!!
     
  24. WhoKnowsWho

    WhoKnowsWho Member

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    I think it should be a bit tougher, i.e. helping the old guy fire his revolver at my qualification by cocking the hammer for him was a bit over the top.

    Though the written test was ambiguous and stupidly obvious on the same page. And was just updated, and out of date with the new laws!

    For those places with tests, you should be allowed to take the test and the shoot at the beginning, and if you passed, get some of the payment for the class refunded and get the paperwork done without the 16 or more hours of class.

    And that other old guy who took his hearing protection off in the range because he turned off his hearing aid... needs a smack from the old guy who was too weak to cock the hammer or pull the DA triggger.
     
  25. buttrap

    buttrap Member

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    Test? they actually have a test for that in some places? that almost shocks me. Actually the main diff between Ore and Wash is in Ore you can pack a full auto Ingrim with the permit if you take the class and can find the bucks for the M-gun.
     
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