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Pedophiles and guns.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by PILMAN, Dec 29, 2006.

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  1. Zen21Tao

    Zen21Tao Member

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    I agree Mech that we need to differentiate between "Pedophiles", “Sex Offenders" and “Sexual Predators" before we can make such a determination.

    As for Sexual Predators (including rapists) and Pedophiles, these are vile individuals that should remain locked away where the thought of owning a gun isn’t even a consideration.

    As for Sexual Offenders, this is a tough one. In some states getting caught taking a wiz in an alley can get a person branded a “Sexual Offender.” Also, in many states an 18 year old man having sex with a 17 year old girl friend could get him charged as a sexual offender. For such individuals, I see no conceivable reason for them to be denied their 2nd Amendment right. But at the other end of the spectrum there are the sick perverts that do everything short of what it takes to be labeled a “predator.” These individuals need to be locked away before they cross that line and become a “predator.”
     
  2. Avenger29

    Avenger29 Member

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    In SC we had legislation to make second offense sex offenders eligible for the death penalty- I don't think it made it through though

    A person who actually raped a child should not be allowed to live (and it should be a very painful death in my opinion) at the very least, castration without anethsia should be a viable punishment for scum like this...

    The fact that he has a g/f is even more disturbing...what kind of woman would date a predator:scrutiny:
     
  3. busy_squirrel

    busy_squirrel Member

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    I think in this state any felon or person with a DV record can't touch a firearm or ammo.

    But I do think alot of sex offenders are treated wrongly. Why are sex crimes portrayed as worse thatn any other crimes? Why are they stigmatized by media, gossip, etc.?

    Here is an example: in this state after they serve their jail-time, they still hafta register wherever they live. What kinda crap is that?!? No other kinda criminal has to register. "Yeah, I live at 123 Anywhere St. and I'm a two time murderer." "Hi! I work at Wal-mart and I'm an identity thief." Doesn't happen. Because once you've done your time, your debt to society is supposed to be paid.

    Now I'm not suggesting that people should take these kinda crimes lightly. Repeat offenders have proved themselves unwilling/unable to change. They should be locked away/blinded/castrated or whatever to keep them away from society. However, if we state that the punishment for X level crime is Q years in jail, then either we assume they are safe and let them out (and NOT track them), or we assume they are not safe (and keep them away from society). Tracking past criminals no longer on probation seems just as unfair to me as publishing names and addresses of CPL holders.
     
  4. Kowboy

    Kowboy Member

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    Thin and Wolf:

    You two better read this before you opine further:

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006612220399

    This poor bastard is facing life inprisonment on the testimony of a four and five-year-old!

    The room where this incident allegedly occured was occupied all day! It couldn't have happened!

    Thank God we've got you ready, fire, aim types.

    Kowboy
     
  5. Mr White

    Mr White Member

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    As a matter of fact, I can. Immediately executing someone like that is not fair. Not fair to all of the children whose lives they've ruined. For it to be fair, the scumbag would have to be tortured for several days, then sloooooooowly executed. Criminals most definitely do not want me to be in charge.
     
  6. LkWinnipesaukee

    LkWinnipesaukee Member

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    Have a gun. Make sure you know how to use it. Make sure your KIDS know how to use it.
     
  7. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    I have a handgun, no kids in the house but I am concerned as there are a lot of kids in my neighborhood that go down our street. I've been keeping an eye to make sure kids don't go near his house.
     
  8. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Felons of all stripes are currently forbidden from carrying firearms, but absent a condition of parole or probation, even a violent sex offender who cops to something less than a felony may not face a prohibition. I don't think any of it makes much sense. For one thing the definition of "sex offender" is so broad in many states that it includes people caught peeing on a bush in a pinch. And on the other hand, there are many felons convicted of fraud, tax evasion or non violent drug offenses that would pose no violent threat.

    If you're talking about forced rape and not stat rape, the fellow is almost certainly a felon and probably has parole restrictions to boot. But if you're talking about 13/18 stat rape maybe not.

    Anyway, don't you have a database you can search? Most states seem to have them now.
     
  9. theleveloftime

    theleveloftime Member

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    Just my .002 of a dollar...........

    You folks that want to summarily execute people really scare me. I assure you we would be much better of with a list of registered murderers and house breakers. Now that would be useful. The other list is merely designed to make you affraid and it does. It is not designed to control violent sex offenders. Sooner or later everyone is going to end up on a list, just wait, you'll have a list fo "former gun owners" there will be people on TV screaming "if you own a gun you should go to prison"! Wait someone has already done that. I can almost smell it in the wind: after this Iraq thing is over we are going to have two things going on. Folks who are now looking for terrorist will be looking for us, some very nice and well meaning people do believe that merely owning a firearm or a desire to should warrant extermination. They will say things like " I saw a copy of Shotgun News in his trash". Folks who have particular war skills will end up on list., because they are dangerous. The US Military considers sex acts that 99.9% of the US population has done at least once punishable by years in prison, here is a hint matey, none of them concern minors, members of the same sex, or animals. Thats my rant. If you think the guy is a felon in possession call the cops and stop worrying like an old woman. No offense to old woman.
     
  10. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Your telling me you wouldn't want to know if a sex offender is moving into your neighborhood if you have young kids? I sure as hell want to know so I can keep my kid the hell away from there.
     
  11. theleveloftime

    theleveloftime Member

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    Just a question....

    What did you do before you had this "great list" to protect you?
     
  12. theleveloftime

    theleveloftime Member

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    another thing

    They are not all on the list.
     
  13. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Of course they are not all on the list however the list HAS helped inform the general public and lowered the crime statistics by these animals. Personally I think it's stupid we even allow them to walk the streets. They deserve to be lined up against a wall and shot with 2 cent bullet.
     
  14. Strings

    Strings Member

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    >Folks who have particular war skills will end up on list., because they are dangerous.<

    Ummm... hate to rain on your parade here, but this list already exists...

    BTW... pilman... many of the folks on the Sex Offender lists are there for the aforementioned "piddled in the bushes" offense, and the "18 year old boy having relations with his 17 year old girlfriend". Not sure of the numbers, but they ARE there. Should they also be sumarily shot? How about the folks who were convicted on the testemony of children who were led to it (ie: false memories and the like)? Should THEY be shot too? How about my one friend, who picked up a girl in a bar and found out weeks later that she was only 16 (regardless of what her driver's license said)... wanna cap him too?

    I frelling volunteer to help abused kids. Y'all that want to immediately start putting folks against the wall (and volunteer to pull the trigger)? Maybe you should take that energy and try actually helping these kids deal with the trauma they've been subjected to.
     
  15. theleveloftime

    theleveloftime Member

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    It's not rain.....

    It is confirmation. I suspected it did.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2006
  16. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

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    Theres a difference with Pedofilia and age of consent. I don't consider a sex offender and a pedofile necessarily the same thing. I'm talking about a grown man who is having sex with an adolescent and knows damn well what he is doing taking advantage of a kid. An 18 year old having sex with a 16 year old is a completely different story.
     
  17. rustymaggot

    rustymaggot Member

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    my old boss was a registered sex offender. he was 18 and he was with a 17 year old. he did 2 years for it. now he owns a few businesses and he used to do trade shows where he would have 15 grand in cash on him when he was packing up and loading his trailer after dark and was unable to own a gun to protect himself.

    ive read news articles of 2 kids getting caught messing with eachother on the playground and because they were both under 13 years old they are now with a record of touching children under the age of 13 and can never own guns and must register.

    then theres the whole peeing in public thing. should someone really have to register for peeing in bushes?

    im opposed to any list whatsoever. if they have done their time, they are done with it. execute em or let them be free.
     
  18. tellner

    tellner member

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    I believe that pedophiles and sexual predators should be given ammunition in large quantities. On a flat ballistic trajectory.
     
  19. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    A lot of Judge Dredds in this thread. Simply put there should be no lists. If you cant be trusted to own a gun how can we trust you back in society?

    If you peed in the bushes you're not a sex offender in my book... you are a litterbug.

    If you slept with your 16 your old girlfriend and you were 18 you are not a sex offender.... just a young guy in high school with a lot of hormones.

    However if your a rapist/pedophile/predator then you should be locked up.

    To Pilman: have you gone over and talked to the guy? It is nice that you want to play hero and protect the neighborhood but what are you going to do when you see a child head over that way? Why not talk to the people in your neighborhood watch and see if they can pressure him into moving?
     
  20. tellner

    tellner member

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    In my case it's an admitted character defect based on experience. I understand that the impulse is the irrational result of things that happened some time ago. I would not act on those impulses, at least I sincerely hope I wouldn't. But they are there and must be acknowledged.

    That is, I really really despise people who sexually abuse others, especially children. My emotional reaction is very angry. I trust that my self control is great enough not to give in to it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2006
  21. Strings

    Strings Member

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    >I'm talking about a grown man who is having sex with an adolescent and knows damn well what he is doing taking advantage of a kid.<

    In my friend's case, he didn't know. Met the girl in a bar, asked her for ID (because she looked young), and thought everything was on the up-and-up. Found out her actual age a couple weeks later, when he was invited to her 16th birthday. The ONLY reason he didn't get popped by the DA is the girl was pregnant, and he could better pay child support if he was out of prison. And if it happened to one guy (my friend), it could easily happen to others...

    Don't get me wrong: in cases where there's clear-cut guilt, I do believe that the offender should be punished to the fullest possible extent. But there's so many other possible circumstances that can hit...
     
  22. Vairochana

    Vairochana Member

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    I work in Child Protection, you raise a lot of interesting points.
    1) Yes children do lie about sexual assault and are not always completely innocent.
    2) I think that the situation as reported in the US is a bit ridiculous when children are suspended from school an treated as sex offenders for what is normal sex play and experimentation.
    3) Sexual assault does happen against children.
    4) People who commit this crime (male and female) rarely reform and will always present a danger to children.

    If this guy has been convicted there is probably a good reason for it. I am not familiar with US practice but in Australia the courts are a bit inconsistent with sentences, and yes this can be due to lack of evidence.
    It may be that there is some kind of a parole violation if there are weapons in the house, it may be that there is no violation. You can be certain however that the local equivalent of the Juvenile Aid Bureau will be interested.
    In short I do not believe that child sex offenders reform and there is no way I would want one in my area.
    This is not a knee jerk reaction, this is a proffessional opinion reinforced by experience
     
  23. Strings

    Strings Member

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    Vairochana, you're right: actual pedophiles don't reform: they're brains are wired differently. We were told in training about an interview a nurse did with a guy who was convicted of having sex with his 13 year old babysitter: his reasoning (why it should be acceptable) was "she felt like a woman". You aren't going to rehabilitate someone like that...

    BTW: you might want to check out the link in my sig: we're in Australia too...
     
  24. razorburn

    razorburn member

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    I've heard this sort of thing before. Which states are these? Is there a link?
     
  25. kengrubb

    kengrubb Member

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    I have two small kids, but I also have serious objections to the whole list thing. Where are the mandatory "I Drive While Talking On My Cell Phone" bumperstickers for jackholes who cause traffic accidents while talking on their cell?

    Sexual offender lists and Gun Free School Zones. All part of the mindset of "Please put up signs to make me feel safe, but don't tell me it's just a placebo or worse."

    Guess it's why the wife and I are, probably in the view of a great many others, overprotective of our kids. We know there is evil out there and we know we're the only ones who can keep our kids safe.

    Local mall has a couple of "ships" that serve as a great indoor, foul weather, playground. Both are always loaded up with kids between 1 and 8, sometimes even a little older.

    Perfectly fun, happy, relaxing environment. But I'm probably the only one packing, and the wife and I seem to be the only ones watching our kids constantly.

    Couple days ago, I saw a little girl maybe 2-3 years old who had wandered off and a complete stranger brought the kid back to the mother. Apparently the kid lost sight of Mom--or perhaps Mom hit up an after Christmas sale and LEFT the kid--and the kid thinking she saw Mommy took off after Mommy. Caught up to the stranger, grabbed her leg, and exclaimed "Mommy". Stranger walked the kid back, found Mom, and returned the kid. Stranger did bear a resemblance to Mom, so the kids powers of observation are pretty good. That's a good sign as she might have to fend for herself, the little ankle-biter.

    As a condition of one's parole or probation, the government can impose all sorts of restrictions. Under terms of parole or probation, then a list is no problem, IMHO. But once the person has done their time, forced registration on a list seems but a step away from wearing a Yellow Star.
     
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