Penetration Test - 210gr Partition 2936fps

[ArmedBear]

In this medium 12inches is given as an approximate penetration depth to where the bullet will either exit an Elk or similar size game....or be stuck just under the hide on the off-side.

That's considered an advantage by some, in case they need a good blood trail.

Why use Barnes for Moose and smaller??

So you can use a less-powerful round and get the same penetration?

Not everyone considers the .338 WinMag to be a great all-purpose hunting cartridge.

Now the wound cavity numbers from the Barnes above don't look that great, but WRT penetration, why not drop back to a more reasonable all-around cartridge and load it with the deeper penetrator?

That's the reason I'd be interested in, say, the GMX, not so I can overpenetrate with a hot Magnum that already does fine with a lead core bullet.

I'm not arguing about it; I'm wondering about it. If I'm way off with my thinking, I'm interested in knowing the how and why of it.

 

[DannySeesUSMC]

Some people will say to use a super-penetrating bullet such as the Barnes because of variables in the field that you might have to take a shot where the animal is heavily quartering towards you or away from you. With the Partitions and Accubonds we are not talking about short penetration however. They will usually out-penetrate bullets which retain more weight and have a larger retained diameter.

The most likely variable that is there with every single shot in the field is accuracy. In field positions your accuracy is not the same as shooting at the range off a bench. This variable is more important than being able to penetrate 4 ft of animal. With Partitions, Accubonds, and regular old soft-points of decent size you have a much higher chance of damaging vitals than you do with a Barnes, GMX, etc.

Look at the difference in wounds here http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/DocGKRData/WoundProfilesAfterWallBarrier.jpg

The Barnes is going to act more like the 9mm and 45 at the top and the Partion/Accubond will act more like the Hornady A-Max at the bottom.

The wound cavity is what kills, it doesn't matter if the Barnes is still penetrating a year later and goes through a few trees after it goes through the deer or elk.

The other bullets will fly through the air better and do more killing damage to the animal. How many Partitions have killed Brown Bear and larger....what is the extra penetration of the Barnes for??

The only merit the monolithic expanding bullets seem to show is with giant african animals or people who are paranoid about having some lead shed off traditional bullets into their meat. Why pay so much more for the extra penetration?

 

[ArmedBear]

Why pay so much more for the extra penetration?

Uh, Nosler's E-Tip and Partition bullets are about the same price. The E-Tips are a buck or two cheaper per box. That's really not a primary concern, anyway.

The A-Max might look good in gelatin, but it wouldn't look like that if you hit a bone or even thick hide. Furthermore, the reason that particular chart looks like it does is that the interior wall fills the JHP's tip and prevents expansion of the pistol rounds, whereas that's not relevant to an A-Max (or an E-Tip, GMX, etc.).

This is a GMX bullet:


Now, assuming that Hornady didn't cheat with the picture, it sure doesn't look to me like it goes straight through with no expansion.

Here's an E-Tip:

And a Partition:

 

[DannySeesUSMC]

I don't know how those do in tests and animal autopsy. I wouldn't doubt if the Partition still ends up penetrating deeper now and then. Wound cavity should still end up going to the Accubond and Partition.

Losing weight with the average pistol cartridge and bullet does not do any big favors...but with rifle bullets the lost weight is radiated outwards in a cone that provides more damage than a good expanding bullet which retains 90% or more of its weight.

In the test I linked to earlier the Hornady Interbond retained something like 94% of its weight but because it became so wide it didn't penetrate as far as the Accubond or Partition....in this case though it trumped the others in wound cavity pretty easily. So in a deer sized animal that bullet probably would of been the most devastating. The only thing with Interbonds is that they are not as consistent as Accubonds and Partitions and do not offer the same blend of great penetration and wound cavity.

Now if the Nosler E-Tip or Hornady GMX retain 95% of their weight they will either act just like the Hornady Interbond and really tear up some stuff but not drive as deep as a Partition or they will tear up stuff, fold down closer to the shank and penetrate as well or a little better than a Partition.

I guess time will tell and more tests of the E-Tip and GMX will be very welcome.

Sometimes a Nosler Ballistic Tip, Hornady SST, or Berger VLD will be perfect as well.

 

[257WM_CDL-SF]

I dont think you can argue with the partition,It has taken more game than anything,And remains the bullet by which others are judged

 

[Horsemany]

I dont think you can argue with the partition,It has taken more game than anything,And remains the bullet by which others are judged

Agreed. The beauty of the Partition is you get the initial rapid, violent expansion of a frangible bullet with the penetration of a more robust bullet. The best of both worlds IMO. Barnes and other solids offer more penetration than necessary and less expansion than desireable IME.

 

[beartooth]

 

[DannySeesUSMC]

For people still curious about the benefit of using a 210 grain bullet that only retains 148-155 grains....please ponder this for a moment....

Why did John Nosler specifically design the Partition to retain roughly 70% of its weight when he could have had the actual partition in the bullet placed further towards the tip and make retention 80-90%?

Within that answer is also the reason the Accubond was designed to duplicate it's performance as closely as popular. They could of easily made that bullet also retain 90-95% like the Scirocco or Interbond.

Losing 65-75% by design was the result of testing the bullet over and over again on big game. Better than 50%....better than 90%....testified by thousands of hunters throughout the years.

beartooth's 210gr. Partition is basically hitting the target with a deep-driving 60gr. varmint bullet and 150gr. monolithic bullet at the same time.

Super-high velocity and super-high weight retention sell bullets but don't let either one trick you.

 

[t165]

No good deed goes unpunished ArmedBear. I enjoyed your write up and the pictures. The Nosler Partition has been putting big game down for years and they are as deadly today as they ever were. All bullet designs are engineered with different tasks in mind. Therefore, all bullets are a compromise. No single design is perfect for all applications.

I also shoot this caliber and bullet weight/design ArmedBear. Are you shooting handloads? The Federal Premium factory loaded 210 grain Nosler Partitions are only listed at being loaded to 2830fps. Seldom does factory ammunition meet or exceed listed velocity.

 

[beartooth]

I am not sure I understand your post. ArmedBear did not write the article. If you were referring to the author then I do use hand-loads, in fact that is all I shoot and my 210gr hand load for hunting is moving at 2936fps. beartooth

 

[t165]

My bad beartooth. I was directing my questions to you. ArmedBear/beartooth...too many bears to keep track of after a hard days work.

 

[dubbleA]

Maybe it's just me but what is the point here? Ok, the bullet made it through 6 jugs of water. Are you going to compare it others with the exact same setup? Say 225gr 250gr, Barnes X, Nosler E-tips, Accubonds, Hornady Interbond, Swift A Frames and others?

 

[DannySeesUSMC]

I think the point is now more people know you don't need a bullet to retain 90-100% of its weight for great penetration. Not only that, but also that the bullet which sheds this percentage of weight (65-75%) does not need to be heavy for caliber like many believe to get this great penetration.

Do you see it? How many have just read the articles on chuckhawks.com and other places where sectional density is simply the key to penetration....

Internet campfire talk would have you believe a 150 grain .270 round at the same velocity as a 150 grain .30 caliber round will have the .270 round giving better penetration - but the bullet design and construction is everything.

Now maybe a new .338 Win Mag shooter will think a little bit before he grabs some 225 or 250 grain load for elk or moose when he really does not need more than this 210 grain Partition.

 

[StrawHat]

Good information in the first post.

I always liked Partition bullets. The nose doesn't vanish when it hits the target. It shatters into various bits of shrapnel and does what it can to anchor the game. The base continues on it's merry way and furthers the cause.

Bullet casters have been doing it for years.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

And that's the whole point to the Nosler Partition -- it works. No need to debate theories about weight retention and so on when the elk go down every time you hit them.

 

[beartooth]

DoubleA, it went through seven, it stuck in the back side of seven. Just clearing that up.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Beartooth et al. Why not perform the same test with a Barnes Triple X in the 185 grain version? Make sure you maximize the velocity and see what you get.

 

[beartooth]

Steve, the last four years I have compared on game the Accubond, TSX and Partition and the Partition by far is a better killer. I have seen and experienced in the field many times and I mean many times on hunts and culling for the state I live in that the TSX can penetrate deep but it is not on a consistent bases a quick killer and does not get close to being one on the above mention comparison on game against the Partition.

Penetration and weight retention is over emphasized and in theory is given a superior position but in reality the Partition and it's design is by far the more superior killer and a much quicker one. I have been so disappointed over the long haul with the TSX that I do not use them anymore. I truly tried to give them the benefit of the doubt when they came out and thought when I first got them that they would surely be the next best thing to sliced bread but they are not for me.

 

[dubbleA]

DoubleA, it went through seven, it stuck in the back side of seven. Just clearing that up.

I would respectably disagree. If I shoot an arrow into a bale of hay and it passes through and stikes a second one and sticks in it did it pass through? If I shoot a series of 1/4" plate and it fails to penetrate say the 4th one did it go through? A bullet going into the 7th jug and not exiting did not go through it.

It's really a moot point, the OP proves nothing but that a 210gr .338 partition traveling 2936fps will go through 6 "hard plastic" jugs of water at 10ft.

 

[ArmedBear]

Steve, the last four years I have compared on game the Accubond, TSX and Partition and the Partition by far is a better killer. I have seen and experienced in the field many times and I mean many times on hunts and culling for the state I live in that the TSX can penetrate deep but it is not on a consistent bases a quick killer and does not get close to being one on the above mention comparison on game against the Partition.

Thank you, beartooth! That's exactly what I was curious about.

There are many people with religious beliefs about bullets (see above). I don't bank on these beliefs, since you'll find people who will tell you that the .30-30 is the best caliber ever, too.

Since you've actually shot a lot of game with these bullets, that's what I want to know about.

It's really a moot point, the OP proves nothing but that a 210gr .338 partition traveling 2936fps will go through 6 "hard plastic" jugs of water at 10ft

Yeah, a 520 grain Postell from a black powder .45-70 could probably beat that on sheer momentum, less of a pressure wave in the water, and zero expansion. In fact, I'm almost sure it would. That wouldn't make it a bettter ELK round than a .338 WinMag with a 210 grain Partition.

Hence my interest in other aspects of the bullet, which beartooth just wrote about.

Thanks again, beartooth.

 

[beartooth]

I delete this response of mine.

 

[usmc1371]

Armedbear,

I will try to answer part of your question, I think that when that front part of the bullet is opening up and seperating from the rear section it is expelling a major part of its energy in a rather short amount of time. This energy is absorbed by tissue wich results in damage/wound cavity. With the barns ( wich I have personaly never shot) I think the expansion is slower so the energy needed to expand the bullet is spread farther though the animal but has less initial "impact".
I have shot over a dozen elk with 180 grain partitions form both 30-06 and 300wm with outstanding results with shots at all sorts of angles. My best friend who shoots 300 wby doesn't like the nosler's because he says on close range shots they "blow up" to easy and don't seem to penatrate. He now uses nothing but barns and loves them. I think for the most part bullet choice is just a personal choice. I did shoot one cow elk with a nosler ballistic tip wich I learned was a poor choice so I guess its a live and learn thing.

 

[beartooth]

The following is part of an article that by Mac who knows what he is talking about and I think it explains a great deal.

My experience with both types of bullets, (bonded and none bonded partitions) on very large mean animals that require some killing to stop.

This may not mean anything to an elk or deer hunter, but I think it may shed some light on the subject. The two partition type bullets most commonly used on heavy animals are the Nosler Partition (Unbonded), and the Swift A-frame (Bonded). For this comparison we will take cape Buffalo, which have a hide and bone that can do some real damage to a bullet. and require a lot of penetration to get to the vitals, and beyond.

The only one shot kills I have ever experienced on Cape Buffalo have been with a 300 gr Nosler Partitions from a 375 H&H, while all others required at least three shots regardless of bullet type, or caliber. The Swift A-frames are used a lot by client hunters on Buffalo in Africa, but are not well liked by most PHs there. The fact that they are bonded makes the form a mushroom type expansion, that is very smooth, and does far less tissue damage along the wound channel, than the same weight Nosler Partition, which framents the front part of the bullet, spreying shrapnell throug the lungs, and heart even if it misses the heart by a little. The penetration of the bonded A-frame may be a bit more than the Partition, but I haven't seen it if it is.

I shot a Cape Buffalo bull just where the neck meets the shoulder and low in line with the heart/lung area, and aimed at the off side hind leg. The Partition entered about 10" above the brisket, ripped the top of the heart to shreds, and part of the front of the right lung, and totally destroying the left lung. rangeing into the paunch, filled tight with grass, and ended up just under the skin in front of the left hind leg. Killing the buffalo in 30 feet where he went down on his nose. The bullet is in front of me as I type this, and it lost most of the front half of the bullet, but the back took it all the way to his hind leg, about 4 1/2 feet of penetration, and the damage was extensive.

I think the bonded core bullets are fine on deer elk, and moose, but on the big "bite backs" make mine a Nosler partition if it is available in the caliber I'm shooting.

The penetrations tests like the one posted here are not very valuable, as an indication of what a bullet will do on animals, but they are fun to do anyway. That would show a better indication if the jugs had been closed in between two one by six and fronted with about 8 inches of wet news print, then a piece of 3/8ths inch plywood soaked for a few days before the test, then aboth three jugs, aniother piece of the 3/8th s plywood, then 8 inches of wet news print on the other end of the column. This would have more closely duplicated a broadside elk or moose, or with more added a length wise shot on a big elk.

I like to see the results of this done a little differently, though nothing will actually duplicate an elk but an elk!

 

[ASCTLC]

4 elk in two years.
All 4 elk taken with 180 partitions.
All broadside lung shots (we don't aim for meat wasting shoulder shots),
No recoverable bullets. They all went through and out the other side, leaving about a nickle size hole exit.

Hunting partner got a 5x5 last year and a big mature 6x6 this year. 2 w/ 300 Win Mag. His shots were roughly 150 yards. Both of his ran about 30-40 yards before falling.

I got a nice mature 6x6 last year and a spike this year. 2 with 30-06 (Fed light mag). My shots roughly 100 yards. My 6x6 dropped without even lifting a foot and my spike took a few very lethargic steps and dropped.

Kinda hard to consider another bullet type with results like these. Unless another bullet can field dress the elks for us when shot, there's just no room for improvement...

Andy