People you refuse to take shooting with you.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by gp911, Jun 18, 2012.

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  1. gp911

    gp911 Member

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    There are some people ya just don't want to take shooting with you, for various reasons. In my case, just recently, I determined two people were on my "don't take to the range" list. Both got on the list due to their attitudes.

    One is a friend of mine that I took there a few years ago when he initially showed interest in obtaining his CHL. At first he was a good student, eager to learn, his only experience with guns was a couple times shooting in a field when he was a kid. He inherited a couple pistols from his stepdad and wanted to try them out. Trip #1 went great. Trip #2 he was very picky about what time we went, what day, we had to change plans a couple times, I don't know if it was nerves or what but he was very difficult. Okay, it happens. Since then he hasn't talked much about the range but he has shot with other people and developed the "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" syndrome. For example, recently I asked him about how he keeps his pistol at his bedside for defense and he told me he "keeps the clip out, that way if someone comes in I can slap the clip in and start shooting". I explained that in his gun inserting the magazine does not feed a round into the chamber, so either he already had a round chambered anyway and was wasting time leaving the mag out or he would need to rack the slide to feed a round into the chamber. He just looked at me, despite repeated, gentle explanations. Then a few days ago I helped him clear his house out to be fumigated. He had me clear his pistols and his 9mm had a mix of 9x19 and .380 ammo in the magazine. I mentioned this to him and told him he was lucky nobody did break in since the chamber was empty and if he slapped a mag in and thought to rack the slide the gun would probably jam, at best. He just ducked out of the room in the middle of the conversation, not wanting to hear he made a mistake. Mind you I'm not being a jerk about any of it, just telling him like "umm, buddy? This isn't the best idea..." I can't trust him to be safe, so no range trips with him.

    Person number two is a teenage relative. At 13 he was excited to go shooting and very open and receptive to instruction. He asked me questions about guns and was generally polite and curious. Now that he's hit puberty and turning 15, and has grown 7" in height, and spent the last year playing games like Call of Duty on xbox he has turned into a cocky punk when it comes to firearms. It's unfortunate, really. His grandfather and great uncle have taken him out shooting in the country a few times and as he recounted the story to me it was obvious he was busy telling them he "already knows everything I need to know about weapons, every gun is loaded, blahblahblah" and by the end of it after he had (poorly) shot their .22s and .38s and told them what time it was his great uncle handed him a 91/30 and said "this doesn't kick at all" so he could get walloped once and maybe listen to some tips to improve his stance, etc. Instead the kid got walloped then bragged that he was smart because he leaned his head way out of the way before he shot it so it wouldn't hit him in the face. At this point in his story I tried to suggest he could make some adjustments to handle the recoil and shoot better based on what he described to me and he cut me off, repeatedly, to tell me it was smart to lean his face away from the stock when he fired the gun. I am so disappointed in him. He wants to shoot my guns but he refuses to listen to anything I have to say regarding safety, etc. so he's on the list. No range for him.

    Anybody else have people like this in their lives?
     
  2. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    Nope! Your very smart not to fool with them !
     
  3. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    "No range for him".

    lolz
     
  4. TurtlePhish

    TurtlePhish Member

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    I know exactly what you mean. I don't personally have any friends on my "list", but there are people I try not to associate with that would definitely make it.
     
  5. chevyman097

    chevyman097 Member

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    eh, I couldn't read much past the first few lines. Another "I'm an elitist that doesn't have the patients to teach anyone a thing or two so I wont waste my time on these ignorant gun owners" post.

    If you aren't a good teacher, don't attempt teach and don't whine when you cant teach.

    Remember, you too did not wake up one day a gun genius.

    Have patients, if you don't, then don't try to teach them. But first of all, stop bitching about them, it gets old.


    oh, sorry, rant over. These " I know a gun idiot and I'm not willing to teach them" rants get worn out.
     
  6. gp911

    gp911 Member

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    Have the patience to read the whole post and you may feel differently. Rants about posts you can't be bothered to finish get worn out too.
     
  7. wyohome

    wyohome Member

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    I agree, it is not a bad thing to not be a good teacher. Some people read a student and find what works. Seldom does someone not want to learn, method is everything.
     
  8. Jlr2267

    Jlr2267 Member

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    Was that a Seinfeld episode?
     
  9. TurtlePhish

    TurtlePhish Member

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    If you're gonna complain about a post, it would really be in your favor to read the whole thing.

    And if you're just gonna complain about the post, why post on the thread in the first place?
     
  10. langenc

    langenc Member

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    Some folks recommend that for family one NOT try to teach them. You need to maintain some semblence of a relationship w/ them-ie wife.

    Let a 'professional' do it.
     
  11. irondavy

    irondavy Member

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    Any way I have several that I will not shoot with again. Several friends of mine went camping with me out on some property that i own. We spent the morning shooting into the bank on the far side of the water tank (50 yards or so) everything went great. These are experienced shooters and even an ex Marine, the shooting was fun but very safe.

    I walked back to the campsite to grab some water for everyone, and on the way back it sounded like all the guns went off at once. It took about 1 minute for me to sprint back to the firing line and everyone was standing in a line shooting and reloading as fast as possible. I yelled a bunch and got everything shut down and sent everyone back to to the cars with their guns to put them up but the damage was done.

    Within 10 minutes i had neighbors from two different properties armed to the teeth standing in in front of me yelling about ricochets. The neighbors had heard WWII start up again on my side of the fence and had come to make sure i was ok even though ricochets were zipping overhead. My neighbors are awesome and I will never disappoint them like that again.

    At the end of the day it's my fault because I was the "range officer" so to speak and I left the firing line unattended. but still I would have expected some more clear thinking from my friends.

    ID
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2012
  12. gp911

    gp911 Member

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    If a student is telling me they already know everything and either argue or walk away when I point out, politely, that they are making a fundamental mistake, how does that make me a poor teacher? I have taught plenty of new shooters and had no issues. These two frustrated me because they both got a little bit of information then decided they were done learning and already knew all they needed to know despite making pretty heinous mistakes.

    I didn't see my post as whining at all, but interpret it however you want, I mean you did read part of it after all.
     
  13. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I have a 14 year-old nephew who is not allowed anywhere near the guns. Nor is he allowed to be alone with the other children. Or alone in the backyard with matches. Or with small animals. And NO, it's NOT my lack of patience or teaching skill that makes him dangerous.
     
  14. TurtlePhish

    TurtlePhish Member

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    The below sums up most of what I was going to say.
    If the student refuses to be taught no matter what, it's not the fault of the teacher, nor is the teacher being an elitist.
     
  15. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    What about your nephew who you know you are going to see on the news one day, and you don't want to be explaining to the police how he learned to shoot? (And no, I'm NOT exaggerating. Not in the least.)
     
  16. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    I didn't read the OP as being elitist at all. Some people, it's probably best not to put a gun in their hands. At least in the case of the teenager, maybe it is just best to wait until he matures a bit. But it is a very personal thing and you have to know the person to judge. To just assume that everyone oughta be taught no matter what is naive. To just criticize the OP for not having the patience to teach a kid who is clearly unwilling to listen, is more elitist to me than the OP.

    Unlike teachers in public schools we do not HAVE to teach troublemaker kids, it's their job, and they have training on dealing with problem children, but then again, they don't teach gun safety in public schools.

    There is a good saying, something along the lines of "nothing is more dangerous than a little bit of knowledge." It is always easier to teach someone who knows absolutely nothing, than someone who knows a little bit and thinks they know it all.
     
  17. threefeathers

    threefeathers member

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    mljdeckard

    I had exactly this, he is now doing 12 years in max security.
     
  18. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I teach all kinds of kids to shoot. In my family, in the boy scouts. (In the army too.) I have the full sense and discretion to know when I am dealing with someone without the seriousness and common sense to handle a firearm responsibly, and I will refuse to train them. PERIOD.

    The reality is, there are people in this world who can't handle the means to use deadly force. I'm not going to put a gun in their hands just to be fair. In a world where everyone gets a trophy, this is one I am not going to hand out. Take your political correctness and.....never mind.

    (You might learn the difference between 'patience' and 'patients'.)
     
  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    I'll make water available to a horse but won't really try to choke it out if it doesn't want to drink.
     
  20. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    So you're saying that there is not a kid in this country you wouldn't train to shoot?
     
  21. chevyman097

    chevyman097 Member

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    No, im saying that this is The High Road. Its not a place for everyone to post multiple threads about people you hate being "stoopider" about guns than you.

    Seems like once a week there is a thread titled "omg guess who I cant stand anymore because they don't know as much as me"

    Maybe if some of you spend more time trying to put effort into promoting the RTKBA rather than posting about the people you hate that are ignorant about guns there wouldn't be so many stoopid machine gun owners putting clips in their armor piercing guing.


    It gets old. Find something else to post about. Like ammo prices. In the mean time, have a 1 on 1 with an uneducated soon to be/gun owner. If it doesnt work, ask for advice rather than bashing them behind their back on the internet web forum.
     
  22. fallout mike

    fallout mike Member

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    Chevy, you realize that mljdeckard did not start this thread right?
     
  23. TurtlePhish

    TurtlePhish Member

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    Where did you infer all this from? I don't see anything that could be taken as elitism, merely concern that the students involved weren't willing to listen to the correct, safe, proper method to shoot. The OP wasn't complaining about "not wanting to help others", but asking if anyone else had had experiences with people that were unteachable students.

    And for someone concerned about a "High Road" attitude, this isn't very high road.

    If you don't like these threads, why post on them?
     
  24. murf

    murf Member

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    gp911,

    they are your guns and your liability.

    i,personally, reserve the right to say "no" at any time, even if they are not my weapons.

    saying "yes" in certain situations reinforces and/or encourages the wrong behavior. i have no problem saying "no". i don't care if their feelings get hurt. better than something else getting hurt.

    imop

    murf
     
  25. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    I love teaching people to shoot and introducing them to shooting, but if someone is (a) unwilling or (b) unable to listen and learn, I won't be wasting my money or or time or risking my hide to teach them. If that makes me a bad person or elitist then so be it.
     
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