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Permapin for the AR15

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 1lostinspace, Nov 8, 2007.

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  1. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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  2. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    What's wrong with the standard cotter pin type of firing pin retaining pin?

    There are not supposed to be different sized holes in the bolt carriers.

    Jeff
     
  3. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    The permapin was the original Stoner design and is far superior, I go though pins like nothing, it's the part most likely to brake.
     
  4. blackhawk2000

    blackhawk2000 member

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    What??? Granted I don't shoot as much as some, but I have at least 10K on my AR, and haven't broke anything yet.
     
  5. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    Well I fire about 1000 rounds a month mainly 25 gr Varget 75 grain BTHP it's a bit hot so things get banned around.... Those pins were a way of saving money.
    I think Ill have my gun smith sand the bolt a bit.
     
  6. blackhawk2000

    blackhawk2000 member

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    I've shot 1k in 8 hrs, on several different occasions. No breakage.
     
  7. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Senior Member

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    25gr of varget under a 75gr bullet is an overcharge. Maybe that's why you're breaking stuff?
     
  8. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't believe that in 32 years experience with the M16/AR15 I've ever noticed the firing pin retaining pin to be a high breakage part. I think that I've seen almost everything that can break on one, break.

    Perhaps you should back off on your overpressure load before you get hurt? If I were you I'd take continual breakage of a part that doesn't normally break as a sign that you're pushing things past a limit.

    Jeff
     
  9. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    I think I might be doing more damage taking it in and out after shooting to clean it. I clean my gun every time I shoot and it doesn't brake it's just rough going in and out. As far as the 25 gr varget in a 5.56mm chamber at 48,000 cup is not that hot of a load.
     
  10. blackhawk2000

    blackhawk2000 member

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    I'll go one step further and say you are just plain ole FOS.

    Here you claim to have never seen combat: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3874525#post3874525

    Yet here you claim to have seen combat, and report the ineffectiveness of .223/5.56 at 150 yds: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3874349#post3874349

    Yet here you praise the .223/5.56 at 150 yds: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3870133#post3870133

    Here in your quickly locked thread you ask for vets comments on .223/5.56 lethality, even though you have shot at, at least 6 people according to another of your posts: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3867780#post3867780


    Here you praise 5.56: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3859042#post3859042


    I think you are a troll.
     
  11. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    what are you talking about

    we all know that 5.56mm will kill past 150 yards
    I have never seen combat.
    The quote of killing 5 insurgents but not been able to kill the one at 151 is obviously a joke.
    As far as the thread locked about 5.56mm been effective I was trying to get really data to prove it does work.

    Define a troll are trying to say I am trying to sell something???
     
  12. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    I am not getting into a flame war with you if you don't know about this permapin thing and can't help please dont insult me or claim that I said I have seen combat.

    Why are you trying to twist things around?
     
  13. blackhawk2000

    blackhawk2000 member

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    All your posts are all over the place. It don't add up.
     
  14. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    add up to what?


    Dude you need a beer or something

    your too:cuss:for no reason
    not cool:uhoh:

    I have never said I have seen combat and have never said that 5.56 is not effective maybe you should read the whole thread
     
  15. ocabj

    ocabj Senior Member

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    That is the biggest waste of $9 I've ever seen in awhile.

    You could have bought 9 standard firing pin retaining pins for that price. And one should last you the life if your barrel.

    If you're breaking FPR pins on a continuous basis, you have a serious issue with your gun.

    I'm not even going to blame your ammo, because I know lots of people, including myself, are shooting pretty hot and heavy loads for the 600 yard line and have no problems with FPR pins.
     
  16. rero360

    rero360 Member

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    a buddy of mine did indeed have his break on his issued M16, before we got M4s, or he lost it, not sure, either way he used a piece of a paperclip in place of the pin for a long time with no ill effects.
     
  17. wideym

    wideym Member

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    I've never had any firing pin retainers break on my ARs or when I was an Armorer in an Infantry company. Guys lost them sometimes, now that I think about it the only part that ever needed replacing were cracked hand guards and a barrel the XO bent around a tree(that was a sight).

    Permapins are like those anti walk pins vendors sell, overpriced junk nobody will ever need, but sound so cool you have to buy one.
     
  18. 1lostinspace

    1lostinspace member

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    well like I said they don't brake but tend to be finicky going in and out.
     
  19. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Uh. Dude. You're breaking parts in your rifle that don't normally break. This is one of the signs of a load that is too hot.

    You can do what you want. You can continue to abuse your AR, have your gunsmith alter the bolt to make the non-spec part fit, and then wonder why something else breaks in a few more thousand rounds. Or, you can replace the broken cotter pin with another one and use a standard load and go for a long time with no parts failures.

    Your choice.

    Mike
     
  20. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a cotter pin - it's held in by friction - of course you'll feel some resistance taking them in and out. It could also be that the FPR hole on your bolt is on the small side of tolerances, and the FPRs you've been buying are made on the large side of the tolerances by that particular mfr. That would add to the tight feeling you get with removal and insertion, and explain why the permapin won't fit. Heck the FPR hole on your bolt could be out of spec and too small. Have your gunsmith thoroughly check your rifle to see if there might be some problem from a damaged or out of spec part.

    As for the FPR being likely to break my limited experience runs against it, and two very experienced folks here have already told you it's not a high breakage part.

    You'd also do well to listen to the folks who are warning you to back off on the hot handloads. The AR15 is a much more robust design than many give it credit for, but that's not a valid reason to put potentially dangerous handloads through it. But hey it's your face when an over pressure load sends hot gases through the charging handle port, or worse.
     
  21. LittleLebowski

    LittleLebowski member

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    1lostinspace, you SURE you've never seen combat?

    Allow me to quote you:

    1lostinspace
    Member


    Join Date: 09-14-07
    Posts: 92

    when i was in Iraq i killed 5 insurgents but the 6th was 151 yards away i fired and nothing just smoke i fired again he flips me off i fired 5 more times as he walked away phrasing Allah. what gives?


    that damn 5.56mm

    if it was .308 his head would have exploded.
     
  22. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Removed. Bart thinks he's legit so that's enough for me.
     
  23. LittleLebowski

    LittleLebowski member

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    Can we get rid of this kid?
     
  24. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    If you are bending/breaking the firing pin retaining pin, something is wrong with the rifle. The only time I've seen this is on unshrouded bolt carriers where the hammer catches the firing pin collar and pulls on the firing pin as it is being cocked. Even then, it takes a lot to bend one - they should be good for several thousand rounds no problem.

    As a general rule, sanding on the more expensive, critical-to-functioning part so it will accept the $9 part is a bad idea.

    It isn't unusual for people who aren't familiar with the disassembly to have a little trouble putting the firing pin retaining pin back in. Instead of buying "far superior" parts that don't fit your rifle, try giving the pin a little clockwise twist as you insert it. You'll eventually get the hang of it. Absent a noticeable bend in the firing pin, I wouldn't bother replacing it just because you have some difficulty with assembly.

    You might also want to read the manual and become familiar with the terminology (when you say "bolt" I assume you are referring to the "bolt carrier" which is the part where the firing pin retaining pin is located).

    Actually I read the post in question and 1lostinspace is being sarcastic about the claims that 5.56 is not effective past 150yds. I don't think he intended to seriously claim that he was a veteran and shot five people. It might not be real clear because 1lostinspace doesn't communicate very effectively or write well; but I don't think he is trolling.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  25. foghornl

    foghornl Senior Member

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    I have no experience with the AR-Series Rifles, but with many years of "device" repair (firearms/electrical/mechanical/hydraulic) I offer this point of view...

    If one part/assembly constantly fails, it is 1 of 2 things..

    1. Bad Design or manufacturing...possiblE, but generally not likely with the AR-xx

    2. Something external to the device is out of spec...Bad ammo for firearms, power out of spec for electrical things, wrong hydraulic fluid/fittings on those applications.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
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