Personal true story. RV stop in ILL.
- Thread starter BBQJOE
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I believe it is US vs. THEM. I'm not sure who all falls into US, but THEY are the guys who will put you into jail or screw your life up so bad they might as well have murdered you, along with those who are so weak as to see THEM as saintly protectors. Never trust a police officer. Simple.
As for the leo's who post about how much they suffer on the job and how they endure the hard sacrifices..bunch of b.s.! They are well paid, more than they deserve. I certainly was. Some guy said how they paid for their schooling, I guess they were stupid or something, I was paid for all four academies I attended and graduated from. I've been in a few hairy situations, but I never felt like I was alone facing a human wave assault of chinese communist soldiers intent on sharpening their axes on my bones. I tell those around me not to be stupid towards leo's, but to remember that theirs' is not an altruistic existence.
As for the leo's who post about how much they suffer on the job and how they endure the hard sacrifices..bunch of b.s.! They are well paid, more than they deserve. I certainly was. Some guy said how they paid for their schooling, I guess they were stupid or something, I was paid for all four academies I attended and graduated from. I've been in a few hairy situations, but I never felt like I was alone facing a human wave assault of chinese communist soldiers intent on sharpening their axes on my bones. I tell those around me not to be stupid towards leo's, but to remember that theirs' is not an altruistic existence.
Why don't you tell us all about your experiences? And feel free to PM with the details if you're not comfortable posting them in public. Anyone can make up a screen name and claim to have been anything or anyone online. It's not unreasonable to ask for verification.
Jeff
Jeff
Kentak,
I couldn't have said it better myself.
And yes, if an officer asks you if you have any weapons in the vehicle, you better tell him that you have many ranch tools, and possibly an axe of sorts somewhere in the vehicle. In most cases the LEO will say "ok, please sign your ticket here" and you both will be on your way.
Everyone seems to forget the FACT that the original poster LIED ABOUT THE PRESENCE OF WEAPONS IN THE VEHICLE!!!! I cannot say it anymore clearly. If someone lied to you, you found out, then lied to you again, you found out then lied to you AGAIN, would you ever believe them? NO YOU WOULDN'T. Therefore, if your job is to find criminals, I would highly suspect this person who is lying to me to be a criminal. Plain as that.
Trust me, I don't always side with LE on these issues. I plan on making a career out of defending cases where constitutional rights have been violated. However, all of the fault lies within the original poster for this incident. That is further evidenced by the fact that the LEO didn't arrest him for the obvious firearms violations.
I also want to bring up the fact that what the officer was excercising was situational awareness. Which is exactly what all of you preach here on this forum. He has the right to ask someone a question about weapons, to which the citizen has the right to refuse to answer it. However, the citizen in this case lied instead of not speaking.
kentak, oobray:
A kitchen knife is NOT a weapon.
If you are brandishing a kitchen knife against another human being in a threatening manner, then it can be used as a weapon. A kitchen knife on its own, that has never been used in a violent activity against another human (or animal), is a tool.
By your definition, anything is a weapon if it can kill someone?
Is a pillow, sitting on the bed, a weapon? You can suffocate someone with it. Is a golf iron, sitting in its golf bag, a weapon? In the hands of anyone, that would be deadlier than any knife. Is it a weapon?
The kitchen knife was in.........the kitchen of the RV. How is this a weapon?
kentak says:
No, I probably wouldn't say that, because it would be an unnecessary detail in a moment of great stress and anxiety. So, what's your point?
How, exactly, is a kitchen knife sitting in a kitchen, lying there, minding its own business, equivalent to a kitchen knife in a home invader's hand as he brandishes it violently?
Do guns kill people, too? Are all inanimate objects really weapons in disguise?
Like I said before, when someone casually calls a kitchen knife a weapon, such as a nosy cop in someone's RV, he is either behaving irrationally or dishonestly.
A kitchen knife is NOT a weapon.
If you are brandishing a kitchen knife against another human being in a threatening manner, then it can be used as a weapon. A kitchen knife on its own, that has never been used in a violent activity against another human (or animal), is a tool.
By your definition, anything is a weapon if it can kill someone?
Is a pillow, sitting on the bed, a weapon? You can suffocate someone with it. Is a golf iron, sitting in its golf bag, a weapon? In the hands of anyone, that would be deadlier than any knife. Is it a weapon?
The kitchen knife was in.........the kitchen of the RV. How is this a weapon?
kentak says:
No, I probably wouldn't say that, because it would be an unnecessary detail in a moment of great stress and anxiety. So, what's your point?
How, exactly, is a kitchen knife sitting in a kitchen, lying there, minding its own business, equivalent to a kitchen knife in a home invader's hand as he brandishes it violently?
Do guns kill people, too? Are all inanimate objects really weapons in disguise?
Like I said before, when someone casually calls a kitchen knife a weapon, such as a nosy cop in someone's RV, he is either behaving irrationally or dishonestly.
B.S.
If I have TOOLS in my vehicle, and a cop asks me if I have any weapons, I will say no. Is that a crime?
I don't consider my tools as weapons. If the cop thinks of them as weapons, then he obviously chose the wrong occupation. Period. End of story.
Acquiescing to this type of unacceptable behavior is a big part of the problem, guys.
Saying this is not equivalent to saying "there are no weapons". To me, that's not lying. An intelligent police officer would have clarified his response with "forget what I should be worried with, do you have any firearms in the RV at all".
The officer made an assumption what he meant was there are no weapons onboard. The original poster did not lie. Granted it wasn't a smart thing to say after allowing him to enter the RV.
Anyway, is lying illegal? And is allowing the officer to enter the RV the same as consenting to a search?
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Fletchette
Member
+1
I have been stopped like this and always respond in this way. I intentionally do not say that he cannot search (could be misinterpreted as resisting an order; a psychological pissing match that tempts a cop to show that he is boss) and state that "I do not consent".
Elza
Member
Feel free to correct me, but I read this as “if you exercise your Constitutional rights we (the cops) will make you pay for it”. You claim retaliation against those that exercise their rights. And you wonder why the “us vs. them” mindset exists??!! :banghead:
Yes, lying to the police is illegal. It's called obstructing justice. What IS legal however, is to keep your mouth shut.
No, letting an LEO into your vehicle is not consenting to a search. However, the officer has a right to see anything in plain view, and ask questions about whatever he sees. And remember, you have a right not to answer him, and terminate your consent for the LEO to be in your vehicle at anytime.
then you are niave
In the eyes of an LEO, or anyone else for that matter, a potential weapon is just as dangerous as one currently being brandished. Consider you were in your yard working one saturday. Your neighbor is in his yard working as well. You both get in to a political discussion on some heated subject, say... gun control.
As the discussion gets more and more tense your situational awareness starts to increase. You notice that a shovel is very close and within his reach. Would you not consider this to be a potential weapon that your neihbor could use against you should the situation turn ugly? If you wouldn't, then you need to re-read a lot of posts on here about situational awareness.
LEO's must walk around in situation orange most always. While most people would not wish to harm them, there are many of those that would.
What a load of crap.
Okay, look.... everything is a weapon. All right? EVERYTHING!
Let's just make it simple and officially pass a law declaring any and everything to be a freaking weapon and save all of this stupid word games business for something more productive.
"Sir, do you have any weapons?"
"Uh.. Officer, as you can clearly see I'm nekkid as a freaking jaybird while I'm sitting here on the beach getting a suntan."
"Sir, what about those hands and feet attached to your arms and legs? Aren't you aware they can be used to gouge my eyes, choke my neck, kick my groin, stomp my toes? I don't believe you're being forthright with me and I'm going to have to conduct a further search of you, Sir."
"Umm.. Officer, we've already established the fact I'm not wearing anything. Just where did you plan on searching?"
Good grief, I can pick up literally anything within reach of the computer I'm typing on and use it as a weapon on you. Depending on our disparity of size, speed, skill, etc. - I stand a chance of doing damage, maybe serious or fatal, to you.
Stupid, stupid word games.
Let's just pass a law making EVERYTHING illegal. Then the authorities can go about hassling anyone they take a fancy to without having to worry about that annoying thing called probable cause. And I'm talking about real probable cause, not some power-tripping, ego-boosting fishing expedition garbage.
And we can stop playing stupid word games.
"Hey buddy, that there ball point pen you're totin' is a freakin' weapon!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Could be!"
"Huh-uh!"
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Okay, look.... everything is a weapon. All right? EVERYTHING!
Let's just make it simple and officially pass a law declaring any and everything to be a freaking weapon and save all of this stupid word games business for something more productive.
"Sir, do you have any weapons?"
"Uh.. Officer, as you can clearly see I'm nekkid as a freaking jaybird while I'm sitting here on the beach getting a suntan."
"Sir, what about those hands and feet attached to your arms and legs? Aren't you aware they can be used to gouge my eyes, choke my neck, kick my groin, stomp my toes? I don't believe you're being forthright with me and I'm going to have to conduct a further search of you, Sir."
"Umm.. Officer, we've already established the fact I'm not wearing anything. Just where did you plan on searching?"
Good grief, I can pick up literally anything within reach of the computer I'm typing on and use it as a weapon on you. Depending on our disparity of size, speed, skill, etc. - I stand a chance of doing damage, maybe serious or fatal, to you.
Stupid, stupid word games.
Let's just pass a law making EVERYTHING illegal. Then the authorities can go about hassling anyone they take a fancy to without having to worry about that annoying thing called probable cause. And I'm talking about real probable cause, not some power-tripping, ego-boosting fishing expedition garbage.
And we can stop playing stupid word games.
"Hey buddy, that there ball point pen you're totin' is a freakin' weapon!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Could be!"
"Huh-uh!"
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Sadly, meef hit the nail on the head.
When exactly did people start to become such pansies?
You see the whole weapon anxiety thing repeated constantly on thread here. A shopowner freaks out because a cop enters his store with a handgun on his belt.... A coworker hears two people talking about a match over the weekend and reports them to the manager... Someone's brother turns red in the face and starts shaking and generally throwing a hissy-fit because his brother put a downpayment on an AR.
Give me a freaking break.
I'm with Carlos Mencia. The problem with society is there are too many stupid people and not enough things to eat them.
-- John
When exactly did people start to become such pansies?
You see the whole weapon anxiety thing repeated constantly on thread here. A shopowner freaks out because a cop enters his store with a handgun on his belt.... A coworker hears two people talking about a match over the weekend and reports them to the manager... Someone's brother turns red in the face and starts shaking and generally throwing a hissy-fit because his brother put a downpayment on an AR.
Give me a freaking break.
I'm with Carlos Mencia. The problem with society is there are too many stupid people and not enough things to eat them.
-- John
oobray,
You have got to be kidding me.
You need to understand what the definition of weapon is. What is a potential weapon? By your irrational logic, all women are potential prostitutes, and all men are potential rapists.
That is exactly what you are saying. EXACTLY.
And you want to get into the justice business? Your thinking is exactly the kind we need far less of.
Please think about what you are saying. Think rationally.
You have got to be kidding me.
You need to understand what the definition of weapon is. What is a potential weapon? By your irrational logic, all women are potential prostitutes, and all men are potential rapists.
That is exactly what you are saying. EXACTLY.
And you want to get into the justice business? Your thinking is exactly the kind we need far less of.
Please think about what you are saying. Think rationally.
eltorrente
Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2007
- Messages
- 135
I think I have a completely different view of this situation than most of you guys seem to.
From my perspective/experience, I think it's best to just cooperate and tell the truth - and most of all, stay completely legal on the roads.
If the cop asked me if he could come in from the cold, I would have said, "sure, c'mon in". When he asked, "Do you have any weapons?", I sure as heck wouldn't have said, "None that you need to worry about...". Why say that? What do you think the cop is gonna think now - not just about potential weapons, but about what you obviously don't want to tell him? I would have just said, "yup, I have a .22 in the safe, and a rifle that has no magazine and the firing pin was removed - that one is under my bed.".
If I was a cop I sure as heck would get sick of people not telling me the straight-forward answers to simple questions.
From my perspective/experience, I think it's best to just cooperate and tell the truth - and most of all, stay completely legal on the roads.
If the cop asked me if he could come in from the cold, I would have said, "sure, c'mon in". When he asked, "Do you have any weapons?", I sure as heck wouldn't have said, "None that you need to worry about...". Why say that? What do you think the cop is gonna think now - not just about potential weapons, but about what you obviously don't want to tell him? I would have just said, "yup, I have a .22 in the safe, and a rifle that has no magazine and the firing pin was removed - that one is under my bed.".
If I was a cop I sure as heck would get sick of people not telling me the straight-forward answers to simple questions.
Autolycus
Member
Then ask a straight question like "Do you have any items that can be used to harm me? For a example a shard of glass, a long stick, a pointed stick, a piece of paer crammed into a ball that could be wedged down my throat, a set of keys, a sweater that could be used to strangle me, a drivers license that could have sharp edges and be used to cut my throat, or anything at all for that matter?"
I am sorry but the more you cooperate with the police, the more likely you are to end up in jail. Ask yourself why the Founding Fathers explicitly say that we have the right to not cooperate with police?
I am sorry but the more you cooperate with the police, the more likely you are to end up in jail. Ask yourself why the Founding Fathers explicitly say that we have the right to not cooperate with police?
scout26
Member
This is the only thing worthwhile in this whole thread. And since it has devolved into argueing semantics, I predict lock in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
Amen. NEVER, EVER voluntarily do anything LE asks you to do. It is never to your benefit, ever.
IMO, you may have lucked out. I don't know how long ago this happened, but these days the most likely thing to happen to someone with a loaded gun, even one that is not readily accessible, is that the people in the RV would be charged with all kinds of crimes and you'd be on the front page as a gun runner the next day, with the director of the ISP crowing about how a major criminal had been taken off the street.
KenpoProfessor
Member
The whole strings of posts on this thread has taught me something. If a LEO talks to me, comes to my house, car, tent, I'm not saying a word. If it's cold outside and they want to come in to get warm, I'll tell them to get back in their vehicle and thanks for checking up on the citizens.
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
Alphazulu6
member
Yeah.................
kbarrett
Member
If the thought of free citizens bearing arms frightens a police officer, then I would suggest finding some other line of work. Nowhere in the constitution does it say that cops should have any more privileges than anyone else. Allowing such was a gross mistake, and should be corrected. If this causes some police officers to quit ... good.
The SCOTUS has determined that a traffic stop is no longer a valid reason for a terry frisk. If you do not leave your vehicle, and refuse to answer questions about weapons, then they do not have an excuse for one.
As for broken tail lights ... the best cure for that is an LED replacement that is permanently attached to your car's wiring with soldered pigtails.
The SCOTUS has determined that a traffic stop is no longer a valid reason for a terry frisk. If you do not leave your vehicle, and refuse to answer questions about weapons, then they do not have an excuse for one.
As for broken tail lights ... the best cure for that is an LED replacement that is permanently attached to your car's wiring with soldered pigtails.
Autolycus
Member
If I see a cop with a broken taillight, can I pull him over and arrest him? What if they are speeding? Do I get to frisk them for my safety?
I figure what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I figure what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
"Dangerous knife"? I wonder who were the legal scholars who drafted this in - and the educated statesmen that voted "yes" passing it into law
Ooops, almost forgot. I agree with those who recommend; just say no. And tell no lies. Things may not run smoother this way, it does however reduce some unpleasant risks.
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