Phila Mayor: "Nutter: NRA should apologize to slain cop's family"

[K-Romulus]

A locked thread discussed a bank robbery shootout out where a Phillly officer was killed by a paroled felon with a mall-ninja'd SKS. Philly is being sued by the NRA because it recently tried to enact a city-wide "assault weapons ban" in violation of PA state law. The lawsuit is pending, with a hearing scheduled for May 19.

Here is what the mayor said:

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/Mayor_Nutter_has_strong_words_for_NRA.html

Mayor Nutter this morning said the National Rifle Association owed an apology to the family of slain police officer Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski.

Nutter recently signed five local gun bills into law, including one that would outlaw the possession and sale of certain assault weapons. The NRA immediately sued the city on the grounds that the city does not have the authority to enact local gun control. They obtained a temporary restraining order to keep the city from enforcing the new laws.

Liczbinski was killed with a Chinese-made assault weapon.

"I think it's insane," Nutter said. "The fact that we put forward a piece of legislation to prevent the sale and use and transfer of assault weapons and have a Philadelphia police officer assaulted on the streets with one, I think makes it pretty clear to anyone who is confused about this issue that there's no reason for any citizen, any person other than in law enforcement or in the military to have such a weapon."

He added: "There's no legitimate argument by the NRA, they need to get in the real world where the rest of us live and come to grips with these kinds of issues. They owe an apology to the family for their staunch opposition over many, many years blocking legislative support for these kinds of matters."

We called the NRA for response and will update when we hear back.

Nutter also said that Eric Floyd -- one of three suspects in the case who remained at large last night -- should turn himself in.

"He needs to turn himself in as quickly as he can. He knows that we're looking for him.He knows that we know who he is, what he looks like," Nutter said.

Here is the back story:

Fatally shot robbery suspect was mastermind, source says

By KITTY CAPARELLA
Philadelphia Daily News

[email protected] 215-854-5880
The mastermind of the Port Richmond bank robbery was Howard Cain, who was fatally shot by police Saturday while fleeing in a minivan minutes after he fired a once-banned high-powered Chinese assault rifle, killing Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski, police say.

As investigators pieced together how a trio of killers met and plotted the deadly bank robbery, scores of police and FBI agents searched from Philadelphia to Lancaster County for the last suspect, Eric DeShawn Floyd, 34, an escapee from a drug-treatment facility called Adappt, in Reading.

Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey described Floyd as "armed and dangerous" and urged him to turn himself in.

Yesterday, Lavon Warner, 38, a onetime sparring partner of former heavyweight champion Evander Holyfield, was held without bail on murder, robbery and related charges after his arrest Saturday.

Cain dreamed up the bank robbery, but his prison buddie, Floyd, had the expertise, police said.

A police source said that every Friday, Cain, 33, of Cleveland Street near Sheridan, in North Philadelphia, used to meet his boss at the Bank of America branch inside the ShopRite Supermarket, on Aramingo Avenue near Castor.

His boss would give him his weekly check, believed to be for working as a roadside assistant helping motorists. Cain would cash the check at the bank, the source said.

At the time, Cain was living in the same building, on Clearfield Street near Sheridan, as Floyd, a fugitive, who had served a state prison sentence for a 1994 bank robbery, the source said.

The two felons met Warner, the ex-boxer, in their North Philadelphia neighborhood, the source added.

Cain apparently realized he couldn't hold up a bank where he was known, so he and Floyd donned Muslim women's clothes - a hijab covering their heads; long dresses, called an abaya; and face veils, called nik-ab - to prevent detection, the source said.

Warner, of Westminster Street near 54th, wore a dreadlock wig and dust mask, the source added. Then, the trio marched into the bank, and Sgt. Liczbinski responded to the bank robbery alarm at 11:26 a.m.

The trio hopped in a blue Jeep Liberty. Hearing flash information about the Jeep, Liczbinski chased the vehicle, which stopped twice before hitting a pole. Cain jumped out and fired the high-powered SKS assault rifle five times at the officer, hitting his left trunk and leaving him in a pool of blood, at Schiller and Almond streets, police said.

Liczbinski's car had one bullet hole on the driver's side door.

The Jeep took off. Cain and Warner then switched vehicles and changed clothes, hopping in a Chrysler Town and Country minivan, according to police. Cain was alone, however, when stopped by police on Louden Street near D, where he was killed by police.

At a news conference yesterday, Deputy Police Commissioner William Blackburn said that outside the minivan, police found the 7.62 mm SKS assault rifle, loaded with 25 rounds, which had been used in Liczbinski's slaying. Five rounds found at the murder scene at Schiller and Almond streetswere consistent with the SKS rifle.

Inside the minivan was a .44-caliber revolver, fully loaded with five live rounds, two sets of Muslim clothing, $38,000 and two GPS tracking systems.

Under a trash can nearby in a common driveway, police recovered a fully loaded .22-caliber revolver and additional clothing linked to the robbery.

Police found the blue Jeep Liberty, used in the officer's killing, on Miller Street near East Ontario. The Jeep had been reported stolen by Warner, after the robbery at 4:45 p.m. Friday, at Broad Street near Allegheny Avenue.

In addition, a dreadlock wig, a dust mask and a blue bag with red handles were also recovered.

Many Muslims expressed anger yesterday that criminals would jeopardize Muslim women by wearing their garb.

"It puts sisters in danger," said one Muslim. Islamic researcher Fareed NuMan said, "They couldn't be practicing Muslims, no way. The Quran forbids a man to imitate a woman."

"Our [Germantown] Masjid is "saddened and angry," said managing director Tariq El Shabazz, also a defense atttorney. "We, like the rest of Philadelphia, are sick and tired of being sick and tired" of the violence.

Anyone with information was asked to call the Homicide Unit at 215-686-3334 or the Citizens Crime Commission at 215-686-TIPS. *

Staff writer Dafney Tales contributed to this report.

Obligatory photo:

 

[Henry Bowman]

Nutter also said that Eric Floyd -- one of three suspects in the case who remained at large last night -- should turn himself in.

He should have not committed the assault. But criminals often do what they shouldn't. Even if doing it is illegal.

 

[nplant]

So does Nutter suggest how his law would augment the already-on-the-books illegality of felons handling weapons? How about the redundancy of armed robbery being illegal? So how exactly would his new laws have changed this outcome?

I think this mayor owes an apology to the citizens of his city, for assuming that they are all idiots.

 

[dm1333]

I would bet that the "high powered assault rifle" was bought long (if it was bought, and not stolen) before the law Nutter is talking about would have gone into effect. It would have had zero impact on the situation, Nutter is using this purely for political gain and should be ashamed of himself.

 

[akodo]

#1 it was already illegal for THAT man to have ANY gun. How did that happen? Oh that's right he broke the law.
#2 Better idea, rather than oulawing guns, lets outlaw MURDER and outlaw BANK ROBBERY. Oh wait, we already did that, and the criminals ignore those laws. Oh well, I guess we can trust the criminals to obey the gun laws!
#3 The person who needs to appologize is whoever paroled the felon. This is why such men should remain in jail.

 

[Big45]

Mr. Nutter will someday reap what he sows.

 

[gbran]

"I think it's insane," Nutter said. "The fact that we put forward a piece of legislation to prevent the sale and use and transfer of assault weapons and have a Philadelphia police officer assaulted on the streets with one, I think makes it pretty clear to anyone who is confused about this issue that there's no reason for any citizen, any person other than in law enforcement or in the military to have such a weapon."

And what if he'd been killed with a Savage 10FP in 308?

 

[-C4-]

My $0.02. As far as I can tell robbing a bank and killing a cop were both illegal and that didn't seem to stop him. I somehow doubt that telling him his gun was in violation of a city ordinance would have any bit of a difference.

 

[rocinante]

I am getting real tired of this "assault weapon" nomenclature. Said homicidal loser could of used a marlin to same effect or a ax handle. SKS does not qualify as an assault rifle. Battle rifle yes but not assault rifle. A fancy carved stock and engraved stag and hound Browning Bar wouldn't be called an assault rifle but it damn sure would make as much of a mess of someone. Rant off.

Who wants a man named Nutter to be in charge of public order? I never voted for the politician named Swindel either who incidently got convicted of graft. Still chuckling over the anti named Bogus who is arguing for D.C.

 

[6_gunner]

1. It's not an assault rifle. It's a semi-automatic carbine.

2. He only fired five shots. It may have well been a Winchester 94.

3. Criminals don't obey laws anyway.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Thank G-d PA has state pre-emption. Smart.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Nutter is right.

I am getting real tired of this "assault weapon" nomenclature.

And for that, you can squarely blame the gun-owning community. We could have nipped this nonsense in the bud had people gotten on board to fight use of the bogus phrase, as I and many like me suggested, and have been suggesting for years and years. But not only do we not fight the bogus phrase, we (some of us) actually start threads and generally use the phrase "assault weapon" with the same bogus definition that the antis attach to it. They gave us a piece of rope and we hung ourselves with it, just as they planned. The antis are laughing their fool heads off every time they see us use the phrase "AWB" or "AW". No different from the abortion rights people calling the other side "anti-abortion" instead of "pro-life", and the pro-life people calling the other side "pro-abortion" or just "fetus murderers" rather than "pro-choice." Except for those groups resists the labels with a negative connotation. We gladly accept the labels created out of thin air to demonize us. Shame on anyone who has ever used the phrases "AWB" or "assault weapons" on gun boards when referring to semi-auto homeland defense rifles, and bans of same. If gun enthusiasts don't resist and fight the label, then of course the average American fence-sitter is going to swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Tom609]

Posted on Mon, May. 5, 2008


Cheap “idiot-proof” rifle killed Phila. officer

By Sam Wood

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
It's called the "poor man's deer rifle."

Inexpensive, deadly, and fairly common, the gun that killed a Philadelphia police officer Saturday was originally designed for the Soviet Army in the mid 1940s.

The SKS carbine - considered simple and rugged - weighs about 8.5 pounds and can be bought legally for as little as $179. Instructions for cleaning and routine maintenance can be found on YouTube.

Considered "idiot proof," the SKS carbine became favorite of hunters in the American South when hundreds of thousands of them flooded the surplus market in the 1980s, authorities said.

Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski, 39, was in pursuit of a trio of armed bankrobbers when one of gunmen shot and killed the 14-year police department veteran.

The three gunmen were fleeing in an SUV after a heist that netted $38,000 from a Port Richmond bank. Liczbinski, first to spot the robbers, was close behind them.

The Jeep came to a stop. Liczbinski got out of his police cruiser.

"I'm going to let him have it," said ex-con Howard Cain before pulling the trigger on the semi-automatic.

Cain squeezed off five shots. Liczbinski collapsed.

The three gunmen ditched the SUV four blocks from where the officer lay dying.

Police cornered Cain, still brandishing his SKS, near the Roosevelt Boulevard. They shot him dead.

"Every gun tells a story," said Tony Robbins, of the ATF. "This one has its story, too."

The SKS sells for less than $200 in a legal gun shop or gun show, said Robbins, a special agent in charge at the Philadelphia field office of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms.

"They're very cheap, but very deadly," Robbins said. "They're also pretty intimidating. They have a lot of firepower. That's why you'll see 'em the street"

The gun that killed officer Liczbinski was outfitted with a 30 cartridge magazine and fired a 7.62x39mm bullet, Robbins said.

An box of 800 surplus rounds can be bought on the internet for about $100.

Though unusual, "those rounds are out there," Robbins said. "These knuckleheads had 'em."

Cain, a convicted felon, would have been prohibited from purchasing or owning any gun, Robbins said.

Robbins would not comment on how Cain came to possess the gun or if the ATF has been able to trace the weapon.

"We're working on the origin of the gun," Robbins said. "We have substantial leads. Anything further than that, I really can't say."

The SKS dates to the mid-40s and was originally designed for the Soviet infantry. The Red Army replaced the SKS with the AK-47. The Chinese military bought the SKS manufacturing equipment and produced more than 8 million of them.

Contact staff writer Sam Wood at 215-854-2796 or at [email protected].

 

[jakeswensonmt]

Mayor Nutter
What's in a name? Truth in advertising for a refreshing change.

 

[Mr White]

An box of 800 surplus rounds can be bought on the internet for about $100.

Damm! It'd be nice of they'd mentioned where!

 

[TCB in TN]

#3 The person who needs to appologize is whoever paroled the felon. This is why such men should remain in jail.

Bingo, we have a winner here!

Punish criminals for crime! Let the rest of us, live our own lives in peace!

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Cain, a convicted felon, would have been prohibited from purchasing or owning any gun, Robbins said.

Wait a minute. Back up. Now I'm confused. He would have followed the law and not possessed an SKS had Mayor Nutjob's bans stayed in place - yet are they saying he STILL would have broken the law preventing him in theory from possessing ANY firearm, SKS or otherwise? Amazing how they can ascertain the mind of a criminal, as to which laws they'll abide by and which ones they won't.

 

[KyJim]

Like a couple of others, I'm wondering when an SKS ever became an assault rifle under anybody's definition. The story says the SKS was loaded with 25 rounds. If true, then it was modified and the modification was possibly illegal. It is my understanding that if purchased with a C&R license, you can't make certain modifications like converting it a fixed magazine to a removable magazine.

Of course, the robbers were apparently convicted felons since they were prison buddies. That means, OMG, THEY BROKE AT LEAST ONE AND MAYBE TWO LAWS IN POSSESSING THE FIREARM! If only they had one more law restricting their possession of the weapon, none of this would have happened. :banghead:

 

[Standing Wolf]

So how exactly would his new laws have changed this outcome?

They would have given the mayor a lot of free publicity, which is the parasite's only concern.

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

It is my understanding that if purchased with a C&R license, you can't make certain modifications like converting it a fixed magazine to a removable magazine

It has nothing to do with it being bought with a C&R license. "Unsporting" firearms are illegal to import, and any such firearm cannot have more than 10 imported parts on this list in it:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Butt stocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, hand guards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floor plates

List taken from here

Back OT, I've never heard of anyone having a name that better suits them than Mayor Nutter. He obviously thinks the people of Philadelphia are total idiots, though I guess they did elect him...

 

[K-Romulus]

Update

If you haven't been following PA/Phila. politics over the last few months, Phila. is trying to pass its own gun laws in contravention of state law. Phila. is having a crime emergency and believes that licensing gun owners and banning "assault weapons" is the key to urban tranquility. It's a big local issue. Here is how this killing is being spun over there in light of the officer's death:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/18680559.html#

Officer's death reignites fuse on gun-control debate

This story was reported by staff writers Dave Davies, Kitty

Caparella, Catherine Lucey, Regina Medina, Dafney Tales and Christine Olley, and written by Will Bunch.

NOBODY KNOWS more about the gruesome carnage caused by five blasts from a Chinese-made SKS assault rifle than Thomas Krajewski Sr., the Port Richmond man who cradled Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski as the cop lay dying outside his home Saturday.

That's why Krajewski can't believe that the gun is not outlawed in Philadelphia.

"There is absolutely no reason that anyone should be carrying around military-style assault weapons," he said. "I mean, we saw what a weapon like that did to a human body. I mean, I own guns and my sons and I hunt as well, but I don't have assault rifles or anything. There's no need for it."

Even with one of Liczbinski's three alleged assailants still on the lam and the police sergeant - who would have turned 40 today - not yet laid to rest, a political war of words erupted yesterday over the gun that killed him.

Mayor Nutter, facing his first real crisis since taking office in January, lashed out at the National Rifle Association for its effort to block a city law that would have outlawed many assault weapons. That included the SKS semiautomatic allegedly fired by alleged killer Howard Cain, who was slain by police shortly after.

"There's no legitimate argument by the NRA," Nutter said at a City Hall news conference, referring to a court order blocking the city-only gun law signed by the new mayor just last month.

"They need to get in the real world where the rest of us live," he said. "They owe an apology to the family for their staunch opposition over many, many years blocking legislative support for these kinds of matters."

The NRA's top official, formerly a Delaware police captain, fired a sharp verbal volley back, saying that gun laws wouldn't have saved Liczbinski and that the real issue here was granting freedom to Cain, a serial felon.

NRA President John Sigler said that it was sad "for Mayor Nutter to seize this opportunity to move his own political career. . . . He should instead use his political muscle to ensure that judges keep these people in jail." The gun advocate also said that it was "reprehensible" for Nutter to suggest that Sigler owes Liczbinski's family an apology.

The debate showed how, in just 48 hours, a violent cop-killing quickly became a kind of a Rorschach test for the gridlocked debate of how to reduce out-of-control crime in Philadelphia.

Those who advocate gun control were outraged that efforts to ban the SKS have faltered on the local, state and federal levels. But those who oppose stricter gun laws pointed to other factors - the breakdown of the urban family, or what they see as a too-lenient legal system that granted parole to Cain despite several felony convictions, including an armed-robbery spree in the 1990s.

Either way, the facts revealed yesterday about how such a powerful rifle - sold at a gun show in North Carolina some 10 years ago - ended up in the hands of three convicted felons tell a sad story of America's failed gun policies.

The SKS carbine used on Liczbinski is an inexpensive Chinese version of a rifle invented and made in Russia in the 1940s.

"They are very cheap, selling for $100 to $300," said Tony Robbins, assistant special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives here. "There's a ton of them out there. They can lay some heavy firepower. We see them periodically being used by street gangs and drug organizations. It's a pretty menacing gun."

After an SKS was used to kill a police officer in Ceres, Calif., two years ago, the Washington-based Violence Policy Center said that federal authorities have identified the weapon as "the rifle model most frequently encountered by law-enforcement officers."

Yet despite that, the SKS was not among 19 weapons prohibited in a 1994 federal ban on certain kinds of assault rifles. That law expired in 2004 under President Bush and the then-GOP-controlled Congress. The SKS has been included in several federal bills aimed at renewing the ban, but all those measures have failed.

Meanwhile, last month's city gun law, now contested by the NRA, specifically outlawed the SKS, as does a state gun-control bill that now languishes in the State House Judiciary Committee.

Pittsburgh State Rep. Dan Frankel has introduced an assault-weapons ban in Harrisburg every year since the federal ban expired, but his bill has never even made it out of committee.

"The pro-gun community has been very effective in creating fear among legislators," Frankel said. "Plenty of my colleagues say to me, 'Dan, you're right on this, but I just can't support it, because it will create political problems for me.' "

What's more, Robbins noted that the ATF was able to trace the SKS rifle used to gun down Liczbinski to a gun show in Fayettville, N.C. He said that because it had been bought at a gun show, the owner did not have to undergo a background check - another proposal that's been blocked by the gun lobby.

"In Southern states, you can buy and sell guns like a table lamp if you go to a gun show," Robbins added. "I don't think this gun was sold illegally. It was passed down and sold many times."

Here in Pennsylvania, Frankel and allies say gun control is an uphill fight in Harrisburg, and they've concentrated on more modest goals than banning assault weapons, such as bills aimed at restricting gun trafficking.

Bill Patton, spokesman for State House Speaker Dennis O'Brien, said his boss is not inclined to try to move an assault- weapons ban through the Legislature. "From a vote-counting perspective, there's very little chance of getting something like that passed," Patton said, adding that O'Brien is working on prison reform and enacting a 20-year mandatory sentence for anyone who shoots at a police officer.

The NRA's Sigler questions why so much of the focus is on guns.

"Why is someone with 17 priors out on the street at all?" he asked. "Leadership in Philadelphia is more interested in rhetoric than in fixing the problems. Jobs, schools, things that need to be fixed. And keeping bad guys in jail. If that costs money, that costs money."

Ironically, Krajewski is a former NRA member, and he still owns three semiautomatics. None of that matters to him right now.

"These guns are made for destruction," he said yesterday inside his living room. "They need to ban assault weapons. They're military weapons." He said he knows some friends still in the NRA would disagree, but "I don't care.

"This is a Philadelphia problem."*

And a blog by the lead author of that "work":
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/18686784.html

SHOULD THIS GUN BE LEGAL?

Uh, no.

Here's the article (written by a familiar name, although really the awesome work of the reporters named at top) on the gun controversy, but this editorial really nails the key issues here:

How easy is it to get one?

In Pennsylvania, as easy as buying a handgun: Walk in, pass an instant background check, walk out with an SKS.

Wasn't this gun banned at one point?

The U.S. — in a rare moment of sanity — outlawed assault weapons in 1994. This ban expired, though, in 2004 and it has not been renewed. Even so, this ban was too limited. The SKS was not covered because it didn't contain enough of the precise list of features that applied to "assault weapons," like grenade launchers and bayonet mounts. (The gun used by the D.C. sniper wouldn't have been covered under the ban, either.) But many maintain that a gun designed for military use on the battlefield should be considered an assault weapon. The city's ban on assault weapons that Mayor Nutter signed last month, which was not legal, would have included the SKS.

And finally:

How much of a problem are these guns? Have they killed other police?

Well, that would be useful information to know, wouldn't it? But the public is restricted from gun-trace information after 2000, thanks to the Tiahrt amendment that limits the ability of the ATF to share gun-trace data. According to the Violence Policy Center, though, 11,591 SKS rifles were traced to crime scenes from 1995 to 2000.

Anecdotally, the SKS is a big problem for police. In fact, during the Clinton administration, there was so much concern on the streets about this gun that a law was passed to exclude these from importation from China. President Bush went on to authorize those manufactured from Yugoslavia.

According to one ATF report, the SKS is the No. 1 gun for offenders 17 and under.

These weapons are not used to hunt deer in the idyllic woods of Pennsylvania, but to hunt police officers on the streets of Philadelphia. It's true, that even a successful ban enacted last month in the city would have been way to late to save Sgt. Stephen Liczbinski -- but what about the Stephen Liczbinski's of 10 years from now.

Posted by Will Bunch @ 10:36 AM Permalink | 19 comments

 

[Dain Bramage]

Hizzoner should just save everybody a lot of time and change his first and middle names to "The Aptly Named".

There are so many false statements in the posted news articles that it's hard to think where to start.

But many maintain that a gun designed for military use on the battlefield should be considered an assault weapon.

I suppose that includes trapdoor Springfields now.

 

[Ninja.of.Love]

That editorial blames a lack of ATF trace data access for the inability to determine how many police officers have been killed in the line of duty by SKS rifles. According to FBI data that tabulates the data for police officers killed by caliber, [Table 33, Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, 2006] there were 48 officers killed by the 7.62x39mm cartridge the SKS fires from 1997 to 2006. In that span, there were 47 officers killed with .38 caliber handguns. Superfluous arguments about hunting aside, these weapons are (fortunately) not used very often in attacks against officers, because they're heavy and nearly impossible to conceal. When will people realize that these weapons are simply conventional semi-automatic rifles that look "menacing?"

If the SKS is such an evil, scary looking weapon, it surely has no practical application. Nevermind that a civilian may want an SKS for militia service and the rifle is apparently good enough for the Russian and Chinese armies...

But many maintain that a gun designed for military use on the battlefield should be considered an assault weapon.

What else have we banned...hmm...the Beretta 92SB is out, so is the Sig Sauer P226. The Colt 1911 platform and the Browning Hi-Power are now "assault weapons." The Remington 700 system is used by the military, so that's out. Hopefully the Heller decision will help provide a precedent for scrapping these laws if they get passed. As always though, it's about education.

 

[Gaggin in pa]

I was making referance to the guys 17 priors

 

[MarcusWendt]

Many Muslims expressed anger yesterday that criminals would jeopardize Muslim women by wearing their garb.

They should SUE!!!!!!