Philosophy: Weapons Light vs. Rule 2

[Averageman]

I live alone, I lock my doors. No one has a key to my house but me.
Now if you get a very bright light and the muzzle of my gun pointed at you because you are in my house, that is likely the least of your worries.

 

[shafter]

You don't have to point the weapon at anyone to see them. I keep a light mounted on my guns for HD. Keep the muzzle pointed at the ground in front of you, hit the switch and you light up the room just as well as if you'd turned on the lights.

I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand.

If you do decide to keep a separate light in your off hand you might want to put in a lot of practice with one hand shooting which is what you'll be doing.

 

[jamesjames]

Rule #2 is a general gun handling rule for safety at the range, competitions, and at home during normal times.

Weapon lights are for engaging (threats) targets in low light situations.

If you are not sure of the threat, there are several things you can do. Verbal warning if you wish, so that family members or friendlies can ID themselves and not get shot. When you begin to "slice the pie", you have the option of flashing the light (either weapon mounted or handheld) to get a flash picture of the room interior. In a fraction of a second, you can get a sense (flash picture) of any one in the room. You can point the weapon at low ready, so that you are not sweeping if that's a concern.

And for God's sake, keep your finger off the trigger until you have ID-ed the target (and what's behind it), or Rules #3 and #4. Your entire house clearing operation should be done with weak hand finger on the light, and strong hand finger along the side of the pistol frame, outside the trigger guard and off the trigger.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

"House clearing operation"?

Does anyone actually do this? From my understanding that goes against virtually everything that one is supposed to do in a HD situation.

As far as lighting goes, I again reiterate leaving a few lamps on in the main part of the house. So if you did have to peak around a corner from where you and your loved ones were hunkered down you would be able to to see without needing additional light sources.

"Tactical lights" are something reserved for LEO and military IMHO, but are marketed towards civilians. Your home should never be pitch black, whether it's a matter of making it to the bathroom to take a leak, or being able to view potential threats.

 

[Orcon]

One of my neighbors is a junkie and has people in and out of that house at all hours of the night. That being said, I have a D-cell MagLITE and a 1911 on my night stand. When something goes bump in the night they both come with me. I use the crooked hold as shown in post #14. If I decide I can't legally shoot your ass, you'll wish I hadn't done what I did with the MagLITE. *Queue banjos*

 

[X-Rap]

I don't agree with leaving lights on in the house. I have no wish to illuminate the path for an intruder through my home while I am sleeping.
Nothing wrong with a handheld light but if I can have only one I'd prefer it on the gun if dealing with an intruder.
I don't know if one would call it house clearing but I believe it's done more often than we think. I don't believe the law is called each time the dog is alerted or the home owner hears a bump in the night.
An interesting poll would be questioning members if they'd ever moved about their home in the dark while armed.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[jamesjames]

Good Ol' Boy: I don't believe in engaging in my own "house clearing operation" either. But many on this thread might decide that if they hear something go bump in the night, they are going to go investigate, gun and light in hand, instead of waiting in the bedroom for the intruder to go away. There have been so many gun training Cable TV shows and training videos that instruct about room clearing procedures that I figured that's where everybody reading this thread was.

A good part of this discussion might be what should a home owner do if they hear a break in. Call 911 and shelter in place? Call 911 and then go looking for trouble? (castle doctrine may not cover a home defender who goes looking for an intruder that has not yet attacked him).

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Let's talk about using light strategically in a home defense situation. One thing I like to do is use nightlights. I'll use bright nightlights in the main living areas that are central to movement in the home. I'll use dimmer nightlights in the areas that channel movement (hallways mainly). The bedroom where I sleep will be pitch black.

This means that unless you break into that bedroom first, your night vision will be disrupted by the nightlights. People in the more dimly lit areas (hallway or bedroom) can see you but you cannot see them. And you can't approach the bedroom without a decent distance of being backlit.

So at that point, the only purpose the weapon light serves is to confirm ID before a final decision is made. However, that's still an important role and one that cannot be well-served by normal home lighting.

We should probably distinguish between situations as well. A situation where you hear somebody forcibly enter your home at night calls for a different approach than "What is that stupid dog barking at?" They require different responses in light use, weapons tactics, etc. However, it seems like we are conflating the very different situations in this thread.

 

[psyopspec]

Handheld light = information gathering tool.

WML = threat engagement tool.

Both are part of my EDC; both are on the nightstand at night. If I hear a noise that I'm 99% sure was the cat knocking something over, I can reach for the gun and the handheld. If I'm awoken to someone breaking down my door, go straight to WML.

Same with situations out of the house. Person stalking toward me in a dark parking garage gets 'accidentally' splashed with the handheld so I can ID them. Active shooter at the movie theater, WML may come in handy.

 

[george burns]

Gun lights have always had the same arguments, back and forth.
I used to say I would never have one on my guns. Now I do, because the new lights are so bright, that once you hit someone with a direct beam or strobe, they are blinded. I have tried it on myself in daylight and could not see anything but spots for almost 5 minutes.
If you just turn it on and point the light at the floor or ceiling, you will light up the entire room, as a few have already mentioned, no need to point the muzzle at the bad guy, until you are sure he is a bad guy.
But he will be blinded and you should be moving anyhow.
So even if he fires in the general direction of the flashing light, you are no longer there. By then you should have decided if it's a go or no go situation, and it whould be over.
Outside the house in complete darkness is another story, if you are going to light someone up, it's going to be trickier, because you really can't see what's behind the person to a satifactory degree, and depending on the light you are using. But it's better to have the option and never have to use it.
I still have several Tac lights along with my Glock with the TLR4 on it.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

But it's better to have the option and never have to use it.

I think that's a key point. Much like a firearm, you can do a lot of stupid things with a weapon-mounted light that will make your situation worse. However, the fact you can make bad decisions with a tool doesn't make that tool useless.

 

[mboylan]

This statement begs for an explanation.

A light gives away your position. That's a good way to get shot. If you can get everyone in a safe place and strategically place the light on the other side of the room while you cover the door with your gun, you have a distinct tactical advantage over an armed intruder.

 

[LiveLife]

An interesting poll would be questioning members if they'd ever moved about their home in the dark while armed.

Several years ago, I returned home day early from out of town work assignment and while opening the door (it was night time), realized my wife sleeps armed and started yelling out, "Honey, it's me ... DON'T SHOOT" repeatedly as I quickly turned on the lights.

We looked at weapon mounted lights and hand held torches (yes, even a 500-1000 lumen flashlight is bright for a room) and have done drills of moving about the house in the dark with hand held lights and without. We ended up deciding to leave the kitchen stove light on and night lights for the rest of the house as others already posted, bright light source may simply draw fire from intruders meaning harm.

I also practice point shooting without the use of sights so hitting identified targets in the dark is very doable for me - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9859706#post9859706

We now have 3 dogs so any intruder(s) may have to content with them first which give us additional time to wake up and arm ourselves. By then, intruder identification will be long done as anyone making past the dogs will face shotgun/ARs.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

I eat lots of carrots problem solved!

 

[papaairbear]

We ended up deciding to leave the kitchen stove light on and night lights for the rest of the house as others already posted, bright light source may simply draw fire from intruders meaning harm.

This is what we do in my home. We also have a couple of low wattage night lights strategically placed that provide just enough light to not totally kill night vision.

 

[Kendal Black]

I certainly understand the utility of a light in a low light confrontation. If something goes bump it the night and I have to go and see what it is, I might have to use a light to see what it is. If the light is mounted on the weapon, I have to point it at the thing that I am trying to identify.

It is an odd case you pose, where we see Rule Four and Rule Two in some sort of apparent conflict. Maybe the best answer so far is to be careful about the muzzle while using the light anyway. Obviously, a mistaken identity shooting is something you must avoid, and you must do the best you can with the other rules, in context of that clear imperative!

About leaving night lights on here and there around the house: No doubt it is possible to buy, or rig from scratch, lights that will stay on if the power goes out. Would home invaders perhaps cut your power line on their way in? It seems an obvious tactic. I am surprised I do not hear of it happening that way more often. See the fifth para at this link, the Joann Harrison incident: http://www.old-yankee.com/rkba/armcit/armc196.html

Or this news story: http://abc30.com/news/burglars-cut-power-to-madera-home-during-break-in/229307/

Or this one: http://www.dothaneagle.com/news/cri...cle_d82493d6-3fae-11e5-89a9-d390cc5467fb.html

Whether the light is gun-mounted or not, it seems to me that you need a flashlight of some sort, as night vision gear is still a little clunky and impractical to deploy when half asleep. A night vision setup that is light, simple, reliable, high res, and no more trouble than putting on a pair of spectacles would be about right for what we need. Cheap would be nice... Until such time as we have that, you need a flashlight, whether mounted on the gun or not.

 

[LiveLife]

About leaving night lights on here and there around the house: No doubt it is possible to buy, or rig from scratch, lights that will stay on if the power goes out. Would home invaders perhaps cut your power line on their way in? It seems an obvious tactic.

BTW, flashlights are located next to our guns, in case of power outages.

And dogs work well in the dark.

 

[Hacker15E]

The two-handed technique was a burden for me when I actually had an attempted home invasion about 5 years ago.

The problem I ran into was, anything I needed to do while ensuring the family was safe -- punching a key code into the alarm, answering the phone, opening the door to my kids' rooms -- required me to either put down the handgun or put down the light.

After my middle-of-the-night wakeup, and the awkwardness of not having any hands to perform the above functions, I bought a G19 and mounted a TLR-1 on it.

 

[X-Rap]

I've heard some say that they keep the hand held light on a tether of some sort that goes around neck or wrist. I can't see any way that would end well if you ever had to make physical contact with an intruder. We like handguns on the night stand because they allow us a free hand to do all the things Hacker stated above.
The rules are not a suicide pact.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Chuck R.]

I've heard some say that they keep the hand held light on a tether of some sort that goes around neck or wrist. I can't see any way that would end well if you ever had to make physical contact with an intruder. We like handguns on the night stand because they allow us a free hand to do all the things Hacker stated above.
The rules are not a suicide pact.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

A lot of lanyards (the better ones) are "break-aways" that will give way when "X" amount of force is applied. I'm not a lanyard fan because of the chance it can get caught in your pistol's action. This actually happened to me during a training exercise. Nothing like clearing a malfunction in the dark that involves your light and weapon. Now I go without a lanyard, and simply tuck the light under my arm when performing reloads etc. A lot of guys use large rubber "O" rings that they can get their finders into, there's less of a chance of tying up the pistol with them and nothing for an opponent to grab on to.

For HD though, I really, really prefer a mounted light on both handguns and long-guns. I've taken multiple low-light classes and trained with the Roger's, Harries (and "un-crossed" Ayoob method?) and Graham (my favorite) methods, even worked neck and cheek index. Always wondered about how the neck, cheek (or headlamp) guys explain their methods to the "they'll shoot at the light" crowd with a light either against your head or on it. Owning my own range I get to quite a bit of night/low-light firing. Just flat out faster and more accurate with a mounted light, and there's one less thing to leave behind at "O dark-30.

Chuck

 

[orionengnr]

The arguments against a weapon light are really moot.

Except...when they're not. Which is most of the time.
Except...when it isn't.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

BTW, flashlights are located next to our guns, in case of power outages.

And dogs work well in the dark.

10-4. As do we.

Our little 50lb pit bull is the best alarm system available. If she barks a few times and then goes quiet there's no need to be alarmed. If ANYONE were to try and break in she'd go bat crap crazy, whether there's light or not. Then it's game on.

The other thought behind leaving a few lamps or night lights on through the house, especially near windows, is that it gives the impression someone might be up. It not only serves as light should someone break in, but also as a deterrent.

If I were a BG and there was a house on my left with lights on and a house on the right pitch black at 2am, I'd go with the house on the right. But I'm not a BG and realize logic is not their strong point and determination plays a role.

As for your average B&E BG's cutting the power to you house, get real. Your tinfoil is a little too tight. Natural power outages? Well that's why we have a backup generator.

 

[X-Rap]

GOB, NEC requires residential power disconnects to be accessible on the outside of the home. Take a look at a resent installation and you'll likely find a breaker panel mounted on an outside wall of the garage. It will be latched but not locked.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

GOB, NEC requires residential power disconnects to be accessible on the outside of the home. Take a look at a resent installation and you'll likely find a breaker panel mounted on an outside wall of the garage. It will be latched but not locked.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Been in construction for a while now and the only homes I've seen with panels on the outside were quite old.

Don't know about where you live but around here modern main panels are inside, required by code. Only thing outside is the meter.

Only way to "cut the power" from the outside would be to physically cut the hardlines to or from the meter. And realistically speaking that is the stuff of movies.

 

[X-Rap]

Colorado has every home with outside panel. They are regulated at the state level here and follow NEC regulations. I was a residential contractor there for almost 20 years and every home with new or updated electrical had the service and at least the main mounted outside. You could have another sub panel inside with individual breakers but all that does is add cost.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk