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Phoenix Copwatch "Know Your Rights" forum on 2/18

Discussion in 'Legal' started by pluvo, Feb 10, 2006.

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  1. pluvo

    pluvo Member

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    Excerpt of an email from Phoenix Copwatch:

    We are having a Know Your Rights Workshop on Saturday, February 18, from 2:30-3:30 pm. At the workshop you can learn more about what Phoenix Copwatch does, and a criminal defense lawyer will discuss what you should do and say during police encounters. She will also answer general questions from the audience. The workshop is part of the annual Local to Global Justice Teach-in held on the ASU Tempe campus. Our workshop will be held in Payne Hall room 129, on the west side of campus. We will also have a table at the event so you can stop by and say "hi". You can view a map of campus here: http://www.asu.edu/map/map.html

    To learn more about Phoenix Copwatch, visit our website at www.phoenixcopwatch.org


    Anybody have any experience (good or bad) with these folks?
     
  2. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Oh, fine, another hate-filled cop bigot!
     
  3. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Oh, no, not a criminal defense attorney! They're the worst.
     
  4. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Oh my. People who think they have rights. :)
     
  5. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Don't we read some of this same attitude from time to time, here at THR? Police brutality is news because when you look at a nation of 300 million, and the many tens of thousandes of police, the bad events are relatively rare. "News" is of the unusual events, as well as of the prurient.

    Hey, some hunters are also poachers. We don't judge all hunters by an evil few.

    If the people of the copwatch would leave out the emotionally-laden words, the actual information they can provide would be useful both to the ordinary citizen and to police. We here talk about the law about what one must do or need not do in our own encounters with police.

    The point of interest to us, I believe, is that this group has a one-sided view of ALL police as MOST LIKELY to WANT to go outside the law.

    Art
     
  6. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    No practical experience, but from reading their website, it seems that they are biased towards the "if the police shoot somebody, they're wrong" mentality.

    Running around and filming the police is the latest trend, and while it can be a PITA for the cops, it's generally not a bad thing. Sunshine is good, generally speaking. The bad thing is that the few times they find something it will be front page news, and the many times that they don't it will never make the news.

    Same old, same old.

    Mike
     
  7. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    *sigh*

    Wonderful. More Hollywood tacticians. "Why don't you just shoot them in the arm?"

    I know I've heard this somewhere before.

    LawDog
     
  8. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Lots of knee jerk reactions here. huh? :)
     
  9. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    I am glad that there are people willing to go around and videotape the police for free. I think their anti-police bias is good because anything potentially bad will be brought to the unbiased attention of the public instead of being whitewashed. I think most cops are decent enough guys that this wont be a problem.
     
  10. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    I would not call an expression of contempt directed at
    a "knee-jerk" reaction. It is a properly directed expression of disdain for a silly idea. Now, if you do not understand why 'shoot to disable' is a dumb idea, we can discuss this. But it is a dumb idea.

    LawDog, where on their site did you see that? I obviously missed it in my (Admittedly brief) skim-over.

    Mike
     
  11. Optical Serenity

    Optical Serenity Member

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    I would bet the members of this group are also members of MADD, PETA, Sierra Club, and a ton of Anti-Gun clubs...

    And yet, we'll have knuckleheads here supporting them. :rolleyes:
     
  12. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    Mike,

    http://www.phoenixcopwatch.org/about.html

    Third paragraph.

    Also, from the news page:
    http://www.phoenixcopwatch.org/news.html

    Yeppers, I knew I'd heard that rhetoric before.

    LawDog
     
  13. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    So no lock?
     
  14. Ziryo

    Ziryo Member

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    ...

    To think I thought my Sociology book was written by bitter Conflict Theorists. That puts the entire text to shame.

    Well, I guess I learned something new today.
     
  15. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    All power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    I see nothing at all wrong with viewing those who have been given an incredible amount of power over other citizens with the utmost vigilance and even suspicion. Human nature is not subject to our optimistic wishes, and the consequences to our society, and to individual victims, of lawlessness by law enforcement are dire.

    I live near Mexico, so I see what corruption is possible. I also live in San Diego, where a Highway Patrol officer used his position of power to force a 20-year-old woman to pull over and drive to a secluded place so he could kill her. His motive has never been determined, though a probation officer who interviewed him concluded that he was just bored.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380760096/002-2099467-7556823?v=glance&n=283155

    I get along fine with cops I meet. I don't view every person I see with deep suspicion.

    But the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. If cops don't understand why their actions are closely monitored and they're not trusted implicitly, they should quit.
     
  16. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    It's not the monitoring.

    With the latest cell phones and other digital capture devices out there, everyone ought to consider themselves on video whenever they're in public.

    I do, however, have to wonder given the rhetoric and philosophy behind CopWatch, if their camera team caught the only evidence which would acquit an officer would they step forward?

    After reading some of their literature, I doubt it. And that tends to irritate me a bit.

    Personally, I think if Phoenix PD is smart, they'll sub poena the CopWatch folks and their video for each IA investigation, court appearance, probation/parole hearing and civil proceeding. I would.

    After all, they are witnesses with video evidence. Why waste this resource?

    Sheriff: The county is getting sued for civil rights violation for an arrest you did two years ago.

    LawDog: Let me check the arrest sheet...CopWatch video'd that one. Joe Schmuck and Jane Whosis.

    D.A.: I'll sub poena them and the tape.

    CopWatch: Umm...we reused that tape.

    District Judge: No, you didn't "reuse the tape", you "destroyed evidence".

    :evil:

    Ah, well.

    LawDog
     
  17. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Agreed LawDog.

    I think that it's AT LEAST as important to stand up for cops -- and others -- who are doing the right thing as to catch those who don't.

    And this group in AZ is probably the product of a bunch of aging Che-t-shirt-wearing college student anarchist wannabes.
     
  18. creitzel

    creitzel Member

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    Did I miss something? Where do I sign up for these "unearned advantages"? They sound like something I might be interested in. :barf:

    Pure race baiting tripe, and makes the rest of their objectives suspicious at best.
     
  19. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Generally, I see nothing wrong with members of the public filming public servants performing their public duties - I believe honest disclosure of the tapes (always a question if the photgraphers have an agenda) will show proper action by LEOs far more often than improper actions.

    I also happen to think there ought to be far more video records of the actions of politicians and bureaucrats than there are now . . . years ago, investigative reporters used to set up "stings" for things like crooked fire inspectors demanding bribes of small businessmen. But I haven't seen one of these in a LONG time . . . and I don't think it's because we're hiring higher grade bureaucrats today.
     
  20. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Sounds like a valid civil liberties debate to me.

    Mike
     
  21. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    I tell this to my cohorts every day. And it is true; every cell phone out there has at least a camera, most have motion-capture capability and audio. If you're out there with a bunch of PO'ed urban youths, one of them will be recording you. And it will probably happen about the time someone gets on your last nerve and you drop an F-bomb and tell someone to go pound sand.

    Understand, most cops are not worried about video surveliance of their uses of force, because most cops know that when they use force it is warranted. What they are worried about are rudeness complaints and fiddling procedural violations. Internal Affairs seems to have a poor track record of differentiating between warranted and unwarranted rudeness, so they take the tack of "if you don't talk like you're addressing Miss Marples' Sunday School class you are out of line." At least that's the way it is around here.

    "Sir, would you please refrain from calling me names and step back up on the sidewalk- sir! Listen, you don't even know my parents, so please stop postulating that they were unwed- SIR, I assure you that my mother is a very lovely woman, but I have never engaged in that sort of conduct with her- OH FOR THE LOVE OF *CENSORED* GET YOUR *CENSORED* *CENSORED* BACK UP ON THE *CENSORED* SIDEWALK RIGHT THE *CENSORED* NOW."

    Something like that.

    Mike
     
  22. wingnutx

    wingnutx Member

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    I generally agree. It is funny, though, that most of the same groups that video the cops at demonstrations have been screaming bloody murder about their privacy rights now that the cops have been videoing them right back.
     
  23. pluvo

    pluvo Member

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    I have absolutely no interest in joining these folks. I was just thinking I might glean some useful info, especially the Q&A with the attorney.

    I'd absolutely love to go to something like this sponsored by folks (gunnies :D ) like us.
     
  24. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Here's a thought . . . there have been a number of threads lately about BATmen and local LEOs going around and harassing people at gun shows, or doing "residency checks" to see if a person who bought a gun at a show actually lives there . . . wouldn't it be 100% appropriate to start videotaping THESE interactions?

    At the next gun show, the sponsors could have a booth running these tapes in a continuous loop on a big-screen TV . . . and once the agents/LEOs were identified, there's a business opportunity - fake "wanted" posters, decks of cards (like we issued in Iraq where Saddam was the Ace of Spades) and so forth and so on. :evil:
     
  25. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    Yes, but not in the way you meant it. There are valid reasons to oppose this group, which have nothing to do with the "thin blue line."

    Bad comparison, Art. I've never seen hunters have anything but contempt for poachers. I've seen the opposite with some LEOs (including a famous comment that the worst cop on his worst day was better than an upstanding civilian).
     
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