Pick 1 For Home Defense Gun

Pick 1 For Your Home Defense Only Gun

  • 9mm, 16+1 HP's

    Votes: 193 34.8%
  • .45 ACP, 8+1 HP's

    Votes: 225 40.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 137 24.7%

  • Total voters
    555
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"I think you are just mad about something...not my problem. If tommy gun (which is obviously the same as a chicago typewriter which is the same as a thompson, multiple names) is not an acceptable answer (even as a joke) then the best choice for home defense is a shotgun. Easy to use, just point and shoot--even if you are a little shaky because of adrenaline the buckshot will make up for it.
http://www.auto-ordnance.com/PA-1TH_t.html

WAIT! You didn't even mention what you would use. I think you are definetly just mad about something dumb."

I'd pick the .45, everyone on here that's read my posts knows that i think 9mm is for women and sissys. j/k guys;) And "tommy gun" wasn't an option.
 

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While my primary home defense gun is a shotgun loaded down with "00" buck, and a bandoleer of spare ammo (though I would hate to be in a sitch that required more than 8 shots), I also have a 9mm pistol with a high-cap mag.

People have already done the whole long gun argument, so I won't go into here, but if you feel you must have a pistol for this, I always have believed it's best to go with the most ammo as opposed to the biggest round.

9mm is plenty deadly, and I'd rather have 16 rounds, and only need one or two, than need nine or ten rounds (or however many) and not have it. It doesn't matter how heavy or large your bullets are when you are reloading your weapon.
 
With the right bullet, 9mm is just fine. I'd prefer the reduced recoil, faster follow-up's and additional capacity of the 9mm.
 
If you don't really want the most stopping power, RE: not to use shoulder arms when they are clearly called for, what difference does it make which pistol you use?

But if you must:

Choose a RELIABLE platform/gun, that fits you, or can be reasonably modified to fit you (get the modifications done, do not put them off) Get it in the fighting caliber it was designed for, and choose one of the reliable bullets now available from the below lists in that caliber.

Prove it is reliable, with a minimum 1000 no ftf (failure to fire test) and you are good to go. (many professionals use a much higher count than 1000, to “proof” their weapons reliability. Every FTF counts, and each one requires starting at zero again. Yup, you smart guys will rationalize ammo, and operator errors out of the equation, don’t. They are ALWAYS part of the equation in a fighting weapon too. Whether you believe it or not)

Maintain your fighting weapons as if your life depends on it. One day not only your life, but the life of your loved ones may. Know how to clean your weapon properly. Understand that a cleaning is more than just a cleaning, it is an inspection, maintenance, cleaning and lubrication stop all rolled into one. Know how to maintain your chosen fighting weapon. Learn how to take it ALL THE WAY DOWN and build it all the way back up. (this is not idle work for grins and giggles. There are reasons.) Have the parts that break regularly on your particular weapon. Every gun has weak points, address them honestly and prepare for them. i.e. With a Glock, always have an additional tigger spring. And have additional parts and always additional recoil springs. I change the springs in my fighting weapons yearly, whether I should be shooting much or not.)

Get as much quality training as you can. Then do quality practice. (this does not include shooting bullseye's at your local range. I am not talking about recreational shooting.)

Quality serious practice, practice, practice.

If what caliber is still the question, you really do not understand the problem.

It is not rocket science, no matter how hard you try to make it so. But it is demanding and expensive. Even with an inexpensive gun.

Of course using a shoulder weapon, is the logical and rational move.

Go figure.

Fred
 
Home defense:

I would choose the 45ACP because the chance of overpenetration of 9mm Luger. (home defense situation) If you don't have neighbors and know what's behind your target/walls. etc. Fine. Use a .308 for home defense. 98% of all firing situations end within 2 shots under 25 feet. Even with eight shots you're still ready for a couple more goons, at least, if you're a bad shot. For "most" a handgun from a size standpoint is easier to handle that a pump around corners and in tight hallways. If you properly train your spouse, (like in the case with mine) she'll shoot better than you will. lol :eek:
 
In the academy, they always told us to have at least 2 sets of handcuffs -- because bad guys always come in pairs. So...16 rounds of 9mm means at least 8 rounds each :)
 
For "most" a handgun from a size standpoint is easier to handle that a pump around corners and in tight hallways. If you properly train your spouse, (like in the case with mine) she'll shoot better than you will.


From Dr Gary Roberts:

NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .

Taken from the above link:

The cogent advice by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU should be routinely heeded:
“Experienced officers implicitly recognize...when potential violence is reasonably anticipated their preparations are characterized by obtaining as many shoulder weapons as possible.”
and
“...no law enforcement officer should ever plan to meet an expected attack armed only with a handgun.”


ASk yourself why you should not be following Agent Patrick's advice. You know something he doesn't. Your combat experience is so vastly superior?

We are talking about real life here, not TV or the movies. The fight if not averted will be short, brutal, much more brutal than you can imagine, and very deadly.

Get as ready as you can be BEFORE THE FIGHT, not after. Don't go to the BG, let the BG come to you, where you will have him on your prepared killing ground. Otherwise you are allowing the BG to choose where and how to engage you on your ground, giving the BG the intuitive. NOT SMART.

I know of no qualified or experienced authority that believes a handgun is easier to 'fight' in a CQB situation than a shoulder weapon of almost any kind. Or given the choice would choose one for a home defense fight.

Fact is it takes much more training, not less to deploy a handgun effectively. Remember this is real life, not the Movies or TV. Most folks have no training at all, and those with as much training as most LEO's are still desperately short of ability, training and quality practice.

So this is what many people here are advocating: deploy a known weak weapon that is MORE difficult to use in the fight you are about to have. What was the advantage you thought you had using a handgun? No competent professional I know would advise this line of action.

GET A SHOULDER ARM. GET TRAINING, as much as you can afford. A LOT OF QUALITY PRACTICE. (Not shooting at your square range for Grins and giggles) LEARN YOUR GROUND. PREPARE YOUR GROUND. DO YOUR RECON. and do it all before you need it, not after there has been a fight. Much of this will not cost a dime. Train your family based on their abilities too.

Mind set, training, quality practice, tactics, preparation, now let's talk about that shoulder weapon, use a handgun secondary to the shoulder arm if you like or need to.

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt.
 
1989 Italian Beretta 92 with 15 +1 rds of 124 gr +P Federal HST.

Most accurate auto I've ever shot and uber reliable. No failures ever.

None. :D
 
I choose other.
I like 40S&W as a nice middle ground that gives you more power than the 9mm and more magazine capacity than the 45ACP. e.g., my S&W M&P40 with a mag capacity of 15+1 Speer Gold Dots.
 
I own neither, but selected the .45 mostly out of intrigue; it's the one of the two I've never owned. I also assume that I'd have another loaded magazine near it at all times that I'd hopefully also grab..
 
I see the poll is kinda old but came back to life. The one thing I think should be remember HD can mean many things from the punk coming in the front door to being in the back yard shed. I think most times someone grab their weapon to check out something that went bump in the night we grab our weapon and light no extra magazines so a high cap pistol make a lot of sense to me you really won't need it but better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.

be safe
 
ASk yourself why you should not be following Agent Patrick's advice. You know something he doesn't. Your combat experience is so vastly superior?

We are talking about real life here, not TV or the movies. The fight if not averted will be short, brutal, much more brutal than you can imagine, and very deadly.

Get as ready as you can be BEFORE THE FIGHT, not after. Don't go to the BG, let the BG come to you, where you will have him on your prepared killing ground. Otherwise you are allowing the BG to choose where and how to engage you on your ground, giving the BG the intuitive. NOT SMART.

I know of no qualified or experienced authority that believes a handgun is easier to 'fight' in a CQB situation than a shoulder weapon of almost any kind. Or given the choice would choose one for a home defense fight.

Fact is it takes much more training, not less to deploy a handgun effectively. Remember this is real life, not the Movies or TV. Most folks have no training at all, and those with as much training as most LEO's are still desperately short of ability, training and quality practice.

So this is what many people here are advocating: deploy a known weak weapon that is MORE difficult to use in the fight you are about to have. What was the advantage you thought you had using a handgun? No competent professional I know would advise this line of action.

GET A SHOULDER ARM. GET TRAINING, as much as you can afford. A LOT OF QUALITY PRACTICE. (Not shooting at your square range for Grins and giggles) LEARN YOUR GROUND. PREPARE YOUR GROUND. DO YOUR RECON. and do it all before you need it, not after there has been a fight. Much of this will not cost a dime. Train your family based on their abilities too.

Mind set, training, quality practice, tactics, preparation, now let's talk about that shoulder weapon, use a handgun secondary to the shoulder arm if you like or need to.

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt.

Do you ever get tires of hearing your own voice? YOu should try not sounding like a complete jerk and maybe someone may take you serious.
 
Do you ever get tires of hearing your own voice? YOu should try not sounding like a complete jerk and maybe someone may take you serious.

Thank you for the name calling, that is in THEHIGHROADS best tradition. And over the years, many folks took me very seriously.

I am glad you are reading what I am sending.

If you notice my posts about most things are pretty consistent. Why, some one capable of critical thinking may ask?

BECAUSE THE BASICS OF THESE THINGS IN SHOOTING AND COMBAT DO NOT CHANGE. The may evolve, slowly, but they do not change quickly or much. No matter what TV program or movie you saw last week or what gun you just bought or want to buy this month.

Note that most of my posts reference many of the leading people and authorities in America on what ever the subject is at hand. Who would you recommend we quote? Some body "kool" or someone who is knowledgeable and experienced about gun fighting, ballistics, and such. Some one with REAL AND OFTEN EXTENSIVE COMBAT EXPERIENCE?

At one time one of my assignments in the military was as a Marine DI, this was after two years of combat. Repeating the same information for each new group of recruits was the norm, not the exception. Just cause I said it last week, doesn't mean that this week's crop of eager and ignorant minds needs that information too.

For the sake of this discussion, we will not discuss those who choose not to learn.

I approach it the same here on The High Road. Every week some body asks the same or similar questions. Some times with a different veneer, but essentially the same question. The answers don't change to keep some one ignorant of the facts of these things happy. I AIN'T A LIBERAL. I deal in facts. That is one very big reason I have survived all my firefights.

I guess some of you folks want answers that you agree with. It don't work that way in the real world. That is why the same guns and calibers tend to come to the fore, over and over again, basic tactics never change either. Time will tell us which of the NEW super guns will be the hot go to weapon in 10 or 20 years. It takes time. War does speed that process up a bunch, but doesn't cover all of the newer weapons that will succeed and those that will not do the mission as well.

The fundamentals never seem to change. Read Clausewitz, Napoleon, or Sun Tzu. The fundamentals don't change. Hence the tactical applications should not change either.

In fact many people like you do believe it is boring, “unKool“, or some other negative term. I don't.

If that makes me a “complete jerk“, Then I am an alive “Complete jerk“. My question is what does that make you? I will use the term uninformed, because we are on TheHighRoad, but most importantly, will we call you alive after your first firefight?

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt.
 
Interesting; have both, keep the 12ga at the ready w/ a variety of loads from slugs to 000 to 00 to #4buck to 3" T-shot. 3" T-shot (at defense ranges) is a cost-effective alternative to #4buck, which ballistics show to have the greatest penetration/quantity of pellets (T shot: 41 .20cal pellets in 3" cartridges!). Bango!

That, and my .45 holds 16...
 
Thank you for the name calling, that is in THEHIGHROADS best tradition. And over the years, many folks took me very seriously.

I am glad you are reading what I am sending.

If you notice my posts about most things are pretty consistent. Why, some one capable of critical thinking may ask?

BECAUSE THE BASICS OF THESE THINGS IN SHOOTING AND COMBAT DO NOT CHANGE. The may evolve, slowly, but they do not change quickly or much. No matter what TV program or movie you saw last week or what gun you just bought or want to buy this month.

Note that most of my posts reference many of the leading people and authorities in America on what ever the subject is at hand. Who would you recommend we quote? Some body "kool" or someone who is knowledgeable and experienced about gun fighting, ballistics, and such. Some one with REAL AND OFTEN EXTENSIVE COMBAT EXPERIENCE?

At one time one of my assignments in the military was as a Marine DI, this was after two years of combat. Repeating the same information for each new group of recruits was the norm, not the exception. Just cause I said it last week, doesn't mean that this week's crop of eager and ignorant minds needs that information too.

For the sake of this discussion, we will not discuss those who choose not to learn.

I approach it the same here on The High Road. Every week some body asks the same or similar questions. Some times with a different veneer, but essentially the same question. The answers don't change to keep some one ignorant of the facts of these things happy. I AIN'T A LIBERAL. I deal in facts. That is one very big reason I have survived all my firefights.

I guess some of you folks want answers that you agree with. It don't work that way in the real world. That is why the same guns and calibers tend to come to the fore, over and over again, basic tactics never change either. Time will tell us which of the NEW super guns will be the hot go to weapon in 10 or 20 years. It takes time. War does speed that process up a bunch, but doesn't cover all of the newer weapons that will succeed and those that will not do the mission as well.

The fundamentals never seem to change. Read Clausewitz, Napoleon, or Sun Tzu. The fundamentals don't change. Hence the tactical applications should not change either.

In fact many people like you do believe it is boring, “unKool“, or some other negative term. I don't.

If that makes me a “complete jerk“, Then I am an alive “Complete jerk“. My question is what does that make you? I will use the term uninformed, because we are on TheHighRoad, but most importantly, will we call you alive after your first firefight?

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt.

Call them like I see them. As to who we should quote, perhaps you, as you seem to believe your knowledge to be second to none. Dont pull the high road routine after you use such pathetic attempts at sarcasm.

People cant always have the perfect sidearm, and people cant always control the situation. Your argument of no handgun is ever sufficient and if you dont use a long gun you are stupid, and stupid should hurt, is plain stupid in itself.

The perfect gun is one that someone is comfortable using and can deploy effectively. Whether that is a BHP or a 12 gauge riot gun.
 
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Let us parse your wisdom.

Call them like I see them.

Just what do you see? I don’t see it.

As to who we should quote, perhaps you, as you seem to believe your knowledge to be second to none.

Well who do you quote? Frankly if I thought my knowledge was second to none, I wouldn’t be quoting the folks I do. You have yet to let us know where your combat and CQB knowledge comes from. Who do you or would you quote?

Although I do have quite a bit of knowledge and experience on both subjects, I am not an expert like the folks I quote are. Maybe you know much better and smarter folks to reference with vastly more combat and CBQ knowledge and research knowledge and experience in terminal ballistics than the folks I quoted. My years of combat are only anecdotal experience of course. But they are very real and are mine. No doubt your experience is much more pervasive useful than mine, and no doubt vastly superior.

Dont pull the high road routine after you use such pathetic attempts at sarcasm.

Please help me understand the pathetic attempts. You insult, abuse, accuse and attempt to bully, but bring nothing of substance. That is not what The High Road stands for. I will not do that.

Use your experience, knowledge, and logic. Make an argument.

People cant always have the perfect sidearm, and people cant always control the situation.

That is EXACTLY why a shoulder arm should be used, when ever possible. YES! The shoulder weapon will be much more effective in getting out of control situation, into control than any sidearm. THAT IS THE POINT!

Your argument of no handgun is ever sufficient and if you dont use a long gun you are stupid, and stupid should hurt, is plain stupid in itself.

I have yet to say or even imply that anyone is stupid. But if you have a choice, a shoulder arm is almost always the vastly superior choice. If you had a choice, like the OP suggests.

Why would anyone given a choice, choose a weapon, the handgun in this case, that is harder to deploy properly, who's ballistic's are less effective, and needs more training and practice to use effectively if there is a choice?

The perfect gun is one that someone is comfortable using and can deploy effectively. Whether that is a BHP or a 12 gauge riot gun.

I have several of both (down to only three highpowers right now). In any fight, or probable choice I would follow the expert fighters advice, the expert terminal Ballistics researchers advice, and my own extensive combat experience, and choose the shoulder weapon.

I know very few folks that can deploy a handgun better than any shotgun I am aware of. (short of medical/strength reasons)

So given the choice why would someone make or take the inferior weapon?

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt
 
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