Pics Only: Lowest cost knife you might consider for EDC if your life depended on it

[dayhiker]

There's a subtle but important distinction to be made here. Ganzo isn't cloning knives. They're making knives that are visually very similar to those of other manufacturers, but they're totally up front that they're the company making the knife, and what it's made from - most notably the 440C blades. They aren't making clones which are knives that are marked as originals, named as originals, and made to be as indistinguishable from the originals as possible. Benchmade's patent on the Axis lock has expired, so copying it and calling it something else is as fair game as making a frame lock now. Making knives that are visually similar but marked as your own is similar to slip joint makers making and selling Sodbusters, Canoes, Barlows, and all the other classic patterns. The Ganzo above is actually sized in between the two sizes of Benchmade / HK knife that it's designed after. The only thing that Ganzo is doing illegally is using Spyderco's trademarked perfectly circular blade hole on some models. That frustrates me, because Spyderco is a great company, and all Ganzo needs to do is switch to an oblong hole like every other Spyderco competitor.

You are entitled to your opinion, and you certainly wont change mine.

So if the next model of Spyderco Ganzo copies is the ARK you'd be cool with it. As long as they mark it Ganzo?

John and Sam's hard work is now public domain?

Ganzo copies others design and RD work. I won't support that.

 

[The Evangelist Cowboy]

Cold Steel Finn Wolf, I love the Scandinavian design, the design of the hunting blade bites deep and easily into flesh and the point is not too pointy so it stands up to repeated use well ( I aint stabbing car doors though so you be the judge), It also has the triad lock and it works for me, I love the thing can be had for about 35 bucks more or less.

 

[ilbob]

For you Ganzo fans, Gearbest has regular flash sales on them. Some real bargains now and then if that is what trips your trigger.

I have bought a bunch of things on Gearbest and so far am quite happy with my purchases. Takes a few weeks to ship from China.

 

[GoPappy]

There's a subtle but important distinction to be made here. Ganzo isn't cloning knives. They're making knives that are visually very similar to those of other manufacturers, but they're totally up front that they're the company making the knife, and what it's made from - most notably the 440C blades. They aren't making clones which are knives that are marked as originals, named as originals, and made to be as indistinguishable from the originals as possible.

No, they are clones. What you are talking about (in the part I bolded above) would be a counterfeit. They have taken the look and features of a Benchmade knife, copied it (except for using cheaper steel and, presumably, other materials) and put their own name on it.

If we encourage cloning by purchasing clones, then what incentive do manufacturers have to invest money in creativity and development of new and unique items? I see people griping about "Why doesn't Benchmade do this?" and "Why doesn't Spyderco come out with this or that?" Maybe they would if thieves such as Ganzo didn't steal their ideas and farm out the production to China so they could benefit from the hard work and creativity of the original creators.

 

[ugaarguy]

You are entitled to your opinion, and you certainly wont change mine.

So if the next model of Spyderco Ganzo copies is the ARK you'd be cool with it. As long as they mark it Ganzo?

John and Sam's hard work is now public domain?

Ganzo copies others design and RD work. I won't support that.

I wouldn't be thrilled if that happened. But, as long as Ganzo follows their established pattern of clearly marking the knife as a Ganzo, clearly marking the actual blade steel on the knife, and not calling it an ARK, I'd be okay with it - as long as they don't put Spyderco's trademark circular hole in the blade. I actually think Ganzo could sell them $10 street price, and more people would try the design. Hopefully the 440C blades would rust from being left in the sheath wet and sweated on, and then they'd buy the real deal in rust proof H1 from Spyderco after seeing how awesome the ARK design actually is.

Also, Benchmade isn't immune from ripping off other people's designs either. They quit making Doug Ritter's RSK Mk 1 version of the Griptilian and then a few months later started selling the near identical Freek.

All of this is probably better left to a separate thread on where we all draw the line between inspiration and copying.

 

[SharpDog]

I wouldn't be thrilled if that happened. But, as long as Ganzo follows their established pattern of clearly marking the knife as a Ganzo, clearly marking the actual blade steel on the knife, and not calling it an ARK, I'd be okay with it - as long as they don't put Spyderco's trademark circular hole in the blade. I actually think Ganzo could sell them $10 street price, and more people would try the design. Hopefully the 440C blades would rust from being left in the sheath wet and sweated on, and then they'd buy the real deal in rust proof H1 from Spyderco after seeing how awesome the ARK design actually is.

Also, Benchmade isn't immune from ripping off other people's designs either. They quit making Doug Ritter's RSK Mk 1 version of the Griptilian and then a few months later started selling the near identical Freek.

All of this is probably better left to a separate thread on where we all draw the line between inspiration and copying.

And, I don't want to hijack the thread but Remington and Colt have also been guilty of copying (Colt copying Kahr, Remington copying Benelli) In the Colt case they had to cease and desist or be sued.

 

[JShirley]

Why? I've carried my modest inventory of liner locks for years and years with no problems, and most of my other EDC knives are similar framelocks, also with no problems.

A framelock uses one of the scales to hold the blade open, which is a substantially thicker piece of metal than the traditional liner lock.

John

 

[Elkins45]

A framelock uses one of the scales to hold the blade open, which is a substantially thicker piece of metal than the traditional liner lock.

John

And in the case of the framelock the users hand directly applies pressure to keep the locking bar engaged by the action of gripping the knife. On a liner lock that force is directed into the scale where it does no good.

Plus, a liner lock geometry must be near perfect or the chance for failure increases greatly. And once the lock sees a few years of wear it tends to develop excessive play.

 

[Valkman]

I'll carry a Case Slippie or Sodbuster but that's as cheap as I go. I try to buy US made and normally carry a BM Griptilian.

3 Benchmades - Bone Collector, Rift and Grip::

I carried this old Gerber starting in 1989 for several years, was free as a 10 yr anniversary gift. Was a good knife!

 

[Gtscotty]

A framelock uses one of the scales to hold the blade open, which is a substantially thicker piece of metal than the traditional liner lock.

John

I'm aware of the differences between a liner and frame lock, but if the metal locking member is sufficiently thick such that it doesn't buckle under a realistic load (which shouldn't be in that direction under most uses anyway) it doesn't matter how thick it is. If 1/16" thick steel of a certain variety meets the realistic load requirements with a reasonable factor of safety, increasing thickness, no matter how much, will not provide a useful increase in capability. I've heard the arguments against liner locks before and still don't think they hold water for well designed/executed knives under 99.9% of usage scenarios.

And in the case of the framelock the users hand directly applies pressure to keep the locking bar engaged by the action of gripping the knife. On a liner lock that force is directed into the scale where it does no good.

Plus, a liner lock geometry must be near perfect or the chance for failure increases greatly. And once the lock sees a few years of wear it tends to develop excessive play.

Where the pressure is applied is entirely specific to the design of the knife (some of mine have the locking bar exposed on the opposite side) and the grip you happen to be using at any given time. Either way, this is a red herring, what force would move the locking bar out of the way of the blade, and close the blade during normal cutting uses? Non-issue.

I don't buy your logic. Which of these liner locks has seen the most use, how much useful life do they each have left? How much life do the frame locks have left before they become unsafe. They must all be set up absolutely perfectly as none have ever failed. What do you count as unsafe, too thin of a structural member in the liner lock failing through buckling under load or the frame lock wearing until it sits against the opposite scale and no longer locks the blade correctly? What do you think the wear rate is for the liner locks with a spring steel temper vs titanium vs whatever steel/heat treat they are using as a bearing insert in the titanium frame locks? How could you make sweeping condemnations of either design without knowing these things?



Lastly, how in the world would any of them fail on me given the load vectors associated with blade down cutting, what the vast majority of knives are used for, the vast majority of the time. Not everyone is spending all their time stabbing and putting downward force on the blades of their small folding pocket knives, in fact, realistically no one is.

I'm not saying that liner locks are the super-awesomest design ever (in fact I generally prefer frame locks), but to act like they are by default dangerously inadequate designs that should never be used is patently absurd.

 

[Water-Man]

Another vote for the Spyderco Tenacious.

 

[ugaarguy]

Either way, this is a red herring, what force would move the locking bar out of the way of the blade, and close the blade during normal cutting uses? Non-issue.

Lastly, how in the world would any of them fail on me given the load vectors associated with blade down cutting, what the vast majority of knives are used for, the vast majority of the time. Not everyone is spending all their time stabbing and putting downward force on the blades of their small folding pocket knives, in fact, realistically no one is.

Had the OP asked about normal use and EDC tasks, I'd agree with you. However, he asked what are the lowest cost knives we'd trust our lives to. That says to me either self defense or having to use the knife, potentially abusively, to hold out until I can get to help or help comes to me. It's extremely unlikely, but people still do bush-crafting as a hobby, and pay to go to adventure survival schools. It's what the OP asked. Hence, you have several folks stating their preference for stronger locks.

 

[JShirley]

I respect what some have said about respecting intellectual property rights and ethical business practices.

At the same time, I picked up a Ganzo to evaluate about 3 days ago. I believe it's good enough that I gave it to a good Soldier this morning whose knife had broken. I can't afford to give away many Spydercos, much less Benchmades. But I gave away that Ganzo this morning, satisfied that I was giving away a safe, strong knife to one of our nation's finest, and I only have to miss a couple of meals to pay for it.

 

[Gtscotty]

Had the OP asked about normal use and EDC tasks, I'd agree with you. However, he asked what are the lowest cost knives we'd trust our lives to. That says to me either self defense or having to use the knife, potentially abusively, to hold out until I can get to help or help comes to me. It's extremely unlikely, but people still do bush-crafting as a hobby, and pay to go to adventure survival schools. It's what the OP asked. Hence, you have several folks stating their preference for stronger locks.

That's just it, what the OP asks about is the cheapest knife you'd use for EDC, with a nondescript qualifier of your life depending on it. He didn't ask what's the cheapest tactical folder you'd use, or the cheapest knife you'd take to Bushcraft class. EDC is the topic, and for actual uses a pocket knife will see in 99.9% of EDC situations, a good quality liner lock is fine. Incidentally, the Opinels, Sodbusters and other slipjoints, while not my preference would also be fine for budget EDC use.

 

[Gtscotty]

I respect what some have said about respecting intellectual property rights and ethical business practices.

At the same time, I picked up a Ganzo to evaluate about 3 days ago. I believe it's good enough that I gave it to a good Soldier this morning whose knife had broken. I can't afford to give away many Spydercos, much less Benchmades. But I gave away that Ganzo this morning, satisfied that I was giving away a safe, strong knife to one of our nation's finest, and I only have to miss a couple of meals to pay for it.

Which model did you evaluate? Was there much blade play that you couldn't adjust out? Thinking they might be handy for stashing in kits in my vehicles and other such uses.

 

[Elkins45]

I'm aware of the differences between a liner and frame lock, but if the metal locking member is sufficiently thick such that it doesn't buckle under a realistic load (which shouldn't be in that direction under most uses anyway) it doesn't matter how thick it is. If 1/16" thick steel of a certain variety meets the realistic load requirements with a reasonable factor of safety, increasing thickness, no matter how much, will not provide a useful increase in capability. I've heard the arguments against liner locks before and still don't think they hold water for well designed/executed knives under 99.9% of usage scenarios.



Where the pressure is applied is entirely specific to the design of the knife (some of mine have the locking bar exposed on the opposite side) and the grip you happen to be using at any given time. Either way, this is a red herring, what force would move the locking bar out of the way of the blade, and close the blade during normal cutting uses? Non-issue.

I don't buy your logic. Which of these liner locks has seen the most use, how much useful life do they each have left? How much life do the frame locks have left before they become unsafe. They must all be set up absolutely perfectly as none have ever failed. What do you count as unsafe, too thin of a structural member in the liner lock failing through buckling under load or the frame lock wearing until it sits against the opposite scale and no longer locks the blade correctly? What do you think the wear rate is for the liner locks with a spring steel temper vs titanium vs whatever steel/heat treat they are using as a bearing insert in the titanium frame locks? How could you make sweeping condemnations of either design without knowing these things?

View attachment 788358

Lastly, how in the world would any of them fail on me given the load vectors associated with blade down cutting, what the vast majority of knives are used for, the vast majority of the time. Not everyone is spending all their time stabbing and putting downward force on the blades of their small folding pocket knives, in fact, realistically no one is.

I'm not saying that liner locks are the super-awesomest design ever (in fact I generally prefer frame locks), but to act like they are by default dangerously inadequate designs that should never be used is patently absurd.

You've never met my Benchmade Stryker or my CRKT I forget what model. Floppier than grandpa without his blue pills.

My opinion is that I would never choose a liner lock when options like the compression lock or Axis lock exist. The OP asked and therefore I shared it. You are free to disagree. My actual opinion in regards to this post is that the cheapest knife I would trust isn't a folder at all. Folding knives are already broken in the middle by definition, and the lock is just a feeble attempt to piece it back together. If I only had $10-20 to spend on a knife that I might need to keep myself alive it would be a fixed blade.

 

[Gtscotty]

You've never met my Benchmade Stryker or my CRKT I forget what model. Floppier than grandpa without his blue pills.

Lol

My opinion is that I would never choose a liner lock when options like the compression lock or Axis lock exist. The OP asked and therefore I shared it. You are free to disagree. My actual opinion in regards to this post is that the cheapest knife I would trust isn't a folder at all. Folding knives are already broken in the middle by definition, and the lock is just a feeble attempt to piece it back together. If I only had $10-20 to spend on a knife that I might need to keep myself alive it would be a fixed blade.

Fair enough, I would never recommend a folder over a fixed blade in a true survival situation, conversely, I never go anywhere in my normal routine without a decent lightweight folder.

 

[Elkins45]

Lol



Fair enough, I would never recommend a folder over a fixed blade in a true survival situation, conversely, I never go anywhere in my normal routine without a decent lightweight folder.

I have one of those dishpan-sized plastic totes filled with folding knives that I bought and carried for anywhere from a few days to a few years. Once Spyderco started making the Paramilitary 2 I essentially stopped buying folding knives, because I don't think it is possible to make a folder than I could like more. The PM2 checked every box on my knife wish list.

 

[JShirley]

Which model did you evaluate? Was there much blade play that you couldn't adjust out? Thinking they might be handy for stashing in kits in my vehicles and other such uses.

G7412P. I could feel no blade play either side-side or front-back. A little heavy and blocky, and you might have to use two hands to unlock, at least at first. I got the orange because it was several bucks cheaper last week, but I think this seller rotates which color is on sale. It was good enough, I'll probably order another...most likely to give away.

 

[SharpDog]

After reading some of the posts here re: liner lock vs. frame lock I decided to compare the lock geometry of two knives. a $10 liner lock and a $165 frame lock. I'm not sure if these pics are clear enough for you to see but IMHO I don't see much geometry advantage of the frame lock vs. the liner lock in these two cases. The frame section itself is thicker on the frame lock but its actual contact point is more towards the outside of the base of the blade. I also have some more expensive liner locks and their liner lock sections are just about as thick as this frame lock. In the case of this liner lock, it might be a little thinner but its geometry is contacting the base of the blade more towards the center. I still prefer a fixed blade but this is some food for thought:

 

[sparkyv]

I really enjoy my Kershaw Leek composite (left), but if my life depended on it, I'd EDC the beefier Kershaw Link (right). Got it for around $40 from Gander Mountain before they closed up in the Houston area. Both made in the USA!

 

[sparkyv]

View attachment 788319

As for the OP, the cheapest knife I've used heavily as an EDC is the Kershaw Skyline in the pic above.

Gtscotty, I sure do like that Kershaw! Do you know where a guy can get one? Kershaw doesn't have it on their website.

 

[bannockburn]

sparkyv

I have a Kershaw Leek and love it but seeing it next to the Link makes me like it for it's slightly larger design and construction.

 

[herrwalther]

Probably the cheapest knife I trust to be good workhorse (as well as self defense, if it ever came down to it) would be a Smith and Wesson M&P knife. Runs about $30 in most places I have bought it. As I have 3 of them in a drawer somewhere.

http://store.smith-wesson.com/webap...57864_757853_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N

 

[JShirley]

I've seen lots of those so loose they barely stayed open at all. What I went through BLOC, I gave a nice Spyderco to one of my classmates who had one. Because, even though I didn't like her, I wanted her to have a real knife.

Being expensive alone isn't enough to make a knife quality, I've just seen a lot of terrible Smith & Wesson's.