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Pietta 1851 Navy vs CVA Walker

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Hoyte, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Hoyte

    Hoyte Member

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    I have a choice between buying an engraved brass frame 1851 navy or a cva walker for my first bp revolver. Both are the same price. What would the pros and cons of both be? Also personal opinions on each?
     
  2. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    I wouldn't buy a brass framed revolver if you want a shooter. The walker is cool but it's YUUUUGE and over 4 lbs in weight. Between those two I'd get the Walker and save up for a steel-framed 1851 or 1860. I prefer the 1860 over all. If you want a wall-hanger/cowboy movie toy get both.
     
  3. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

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    Assuming they are both in good shape, on the used market the Walker is worth at least twice as much as a brass framed 1851 and potentially closer to 3 times.
     
  4. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

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    Picking a number - $200
    If you can buy a nice walker for $200 out the door, buy it and don't worry how big it is.
    At $200 for a brass frame 1851, pass
     
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  5. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Indeed. Brass-framed 1851s are more like $100 guns IMO.
     
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  6. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    1851 36 cal brass not too bad. I wouldn't in 44 cal. For same price, as long as at low end for used 1851 I would get the Walker because you won't find another that low of price. Then save or trade + a few bucks for steel 1851.
     
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  7. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    At the two ends of the BP revolver spectrum. The 1851 Navy is a 36 caliber revolver and with a brass frame, likely maxes out at 15 grs Fffg black powder under an 80 grs round ball. The brass frame needs to be kept in mind as it will stretch if used with heavy loads. Until the introduction of the 357 Magnum in the 1930s, the Colt Walker was the most powerful handgun in the world. It will take 60 grs of Fffg powder under a 140 grs round ball and was designed to kill or disable a horse at 100 yards. It weighs about 5 lbs and is the largest handgun you are liekly to ever come across.

    There should be a substantial price difference between the two as the ASP or Uberti made Walker retails for considerably more than a brass frame 1851. I have no use for or interest in a brass frame 1851, so wouldn't encourage its purchase for anything other than display. The Walker wouldn't necessarily be my choice for a first BP revolver, but of the two, that's the one I would get.
     
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  8. Hoyte

    Hoyte Member

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    A lot of good advice here. For more info, the 1851 is the 44 cal and they’re asking 300. The walker is in good shape and also 300. Seems like the walker would be the way to go. Not too worried about size, used to carrying around large firearms.
     
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  9. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    WAAAAAAY too much for a brass framed 1851. IMO. I know times are crazy right now but I haven't paid more than $200 new per for my 2 1860s, 2 steel 1851s, and 2 Remington NMAs. And I got the Uberti walker for about $209 after some Cabela's points.

    run away from that seller, or offer them $140 for the brass framed 1851 and hang it on your wall. If you shoot it much the frame will probably stretch to uselessness in short order.
     
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  10. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Some good advice from Mike Beliveau here. FF to 6:52

     
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  11. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    To be fair, you must give us more specifics on each revolver. Photos would be very good, but you may not have access to the revolvers for them. With both guns, manufacturer/importer, date code, serial number, any maker marks, proofmarks, etc., are very important insofar as determining what they actually are.

    IMO, those guns are cheaper obscure manufacturer Italian revolvers made for eye candy: bling. As has been stated, if you want it for a shooter, a brass frame is not the way to go. If you intend to shoot fairly stout .36 cal loads (23-25 grains BP), the revolver will not last long as the steel cylinder will imprint the cylinder ratchet teeth into the brass recoil shield of the frame, which will result in much cylinder endplay, causing the barrel/cylinder gap to deviate a bunch. If you shoot it, stay below 15 grains BP and it will last a long time. Having said that, part of the fun shooting BP revolvers is the big "boom" and the smoke when you touch it off, and that's why I only shoot steel frame revolvers.

    Connecticut Valley Arms was an importer of various Italian manufacturers early on in the rush to sell BP revolvers. As was stated, the Walker is a very large revolver (4 lbs. 9 oz.) and has a large tendency to drop the load-lever/rammer on almost every shot, which prevents the cylinder from rotating to the next shot. Their are cures for that, but it is something to take into consideration.

    For $300, I would definitely go with the Walker, but you must understand that replacement parts are either not available, or at best, slim pickings, depending upon the manufacturer.

    Good luck!

    Regards,

    Jim
     
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  12. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    If I had $300 to spend I probably wouldn't buy either of them.
    It might depend on the condition of the Walker and if you really want to own it or not.
    A new Pietta engraved .44 brass frame can cost $249, but only $199 at Cabela's without the engraving. --->>> http://piettausa.com/1851-Navy-Dlx-Brass-Engraved-44-75_p_709.html

    At Cabela's:--->>> https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/pietta-1851-confederate-navy-black-powder-revolver

    I would buy a new Pietta 1858 for $279 at Cabela's or Basspro. --->>> https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/pietta-1858-remington-black-powder-revolver
    The only issue is that it needs to be picked up in person because they won't ship it.
    Otherwise it would cost a little bit more from another seller, or buy a used one.

    How far away is the nearest Cabela's or Basspro from where you live?
    Here's their store locator.--->>> https://stores.cabelas.com/?ds_e=GOOGLE&ds_c=Brand:+Cabela's+-+Exact&gclid=Cj0KCQjw28T8BRDbARIsAEOMBcxmVpbcG9VnQ3WDIfQlUN1yotgzPVFUfwocUtnuN5rH-wXwHXvpfekaAl6wEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  13. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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    I would go with the Walker! But ... remember that the Pietta is from a manufacturer that is still around while the CVA is probably an Armi San Marco which discontinued production two decades ago. CVA did deal with other manufacturers but I think all of their Walkers, Dragoons and pocket pistols were from ASM. I like ASM products but I am not much of a shooter any more so I do not need to worry about finding parts after blasting away on the competition circuit for a bunch of years. The $300 is an OK price for the Walker but you might see if the owner can be talked down. I know the engraving on the 1851 looks cool and the brass looks golden but unless you want to display it, all that bling is going to be tarnished and dirty soon enough.
     
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  14. Hoyte

    Hoyte Member

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    Closest cabelas is about an hour away, most bp revolvers on there are either sold out or limited stock unfortunately. I'll check it out when I'm able
     
  15. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    Your link is for the Pietta site, not the Cabela's site. Try to find one these pandemic days.

    https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/1851-Navy-Brass-Engraved-36-7-1-2-110p1811.htm

    https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/1851-Navy-Brass-Engraved-44-7-1-2-110p1807.htm

    At Cabela's:--->>> https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/pietta-1851-confederate-navy-black-powder-revolver

    Not engraved but available.

     
  16. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    Buy the Walker if in good shape. Colts look nice and handle well but of mine I shoot the steel frame 1858 Remington the most. Spare cylinder change is way more simple. Can load it for plinking or bear without worrying about damage.
     
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  17. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I'm apologize for listing guns not available online.
    My local Cabela's has both of them in stock.

    I was able to put the Remingtons listed below in my cart so they're available:
    Jedediah Starr has a bunch of Piettas in stock and also list Uberti's.
    Here's a few nice Piettas and they have more.

    1. https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=13&pid=350&offset=3
    2. https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=13&pid=3483&offset=3
    3. https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=13&pid=3463&offset=3
     
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  18. Captain*kirk

    Captain*kirk Member

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    Good advice here. 300 for a used brasser? Ludicrous. A .44 brasser is gonna be good for about 18gr of 3F on a regular basis. If this is your only BP gun, you will get bored quickly and miss out on half the fun. I'd value that brasser at about 125, tops.
    The Walker...a lot depends on the manufacturer and whether you have an excessive cylinder gap to start with. Many of the early ASMs came with excessive gaps ( .003-.005 is what I prefer) and some of them are in the .016-.020 range; way too excessive. At 4.5 pounds, the Walker is a behemoth. You say you are used to big guns. This is a BIG gun. I also think you could do better than 300 on the Walker. But that's between you and the seller. Just last spring Midway was selling NEW Uberti Walkers for around 350 so take that in consideration.
     
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  19. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    My advice and opinion is that if you are new to black powder revolvers....get new and stay away from used. Buying used you risk buying someone elses problem...whether the gun came that way from factory or their own failed gun smithing attempts. Being that you are new to these guns you may not know how to fix or correct some tuning issues and that may frustrate you and turn you off of these guns permanently. Best to just buy a new Pietta as their new guns are top of the line with great parts and tuning and cheaper than uberti.
     
  20. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    I own a CVA Walker, it's a great fun huge chunk of iron. It had a number of issues that are now mostly corrected. With the current trends in prices it's a good deal. If you buy it check it over carefully as the arbor will be short, it may have timing issues as well, most of the internal parts will need polishing. Once it's running right it will be a lot of fun and a real attention getter at the range. If you want more info on the stuff I fixed feel free to PM me.
     
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  21. MAKster

    MAKster Member

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    44 caliber in a 1851 is wrong. Brass frame is wrong. And $300 is wrong.
     
  22. drobs

    drobs Member

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    Of the choices given - I'd go with the Walker.

    However...
    I own 7 BP revolvers and the Walker is not one of them.

    If I were you, I'd skip those altogether and get yourself either a Pietta 1860 Army with steel frame in 44 cal or a Pietta 1851 Navy with steel frame in 36 caliber.

    Avoid brass frames like the plague.

    Here's a good one at a decent price:
    https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=17&pid=345&offset=0
     
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  23. misskitty2

    misskitty2 Member

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    stick with steel frames
     
  24. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    And have it delivered to the Kid, have him tune it and send it to you. It would be well worth it, and you would be in Cap and Ball heaven right from the start. If I had it to do over, I think that's what I would have done with the 1862 I just purchased. !!!! That would be a good option with a used gun for sure, and save a couple of bucks in postage. !
     
  25. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    I’d buy the walker every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Especially at that price.
     
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