Pietta good years/bad years

[Brad_Bradsher]

Harm, thank you so much for the reference to the thread describing case hardening...I'm only halfway through the long 1920's article about the process and I already know more about CCH than I ever knew in my life. Why would companies fake CCH with acid salt baths? Because the proper method involves putting parts in a shoebox-size iron box for processing...one box at a time, at 1600 degrees. Fascinating, and thanks again.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

You can fake color case hardening with mineral based oil and an oxy acetylene torch. Oil the piece and carefully apply heat till the color changes. It is only cosmetic and will not last long if the piece is used much. The trick is not to let the torch stay in one place for very long.

 

[denster]

Harm, thank you so much for the reference to the thread describing case hardening...I'm only halfway through the long 1920's article about the process and I already know more about CCH than I ever knew in my life. Why would companies fake CCH with acid salt baths? Because the proper method involves putting parts in a shoebox-size iron box for processing...one box at a time, at 1600 degrees. Fascinating, and thanks again.

Actually the color case hardening on both Uberti and Pietta replicas is a true color case hardening. The Italians use Cyanide as a carburizing agent which is the bath you see in the you tube video. In this country we mostly use the pack method of carburizing. In either case it is not the carburizing agent that is responsible for the colors but the quench that fixes the different temperature colors the steel goes through. The Italians use a rolling aerated quench while here we use a bubbled aerated quench to give the colors as seen in Colt SAA etc. For an excellent demonstration of the pack method watch Larry Potterfield of Midway on Midway's youtube gunsmithing videos show how it is done.

 

[expat_alaska]

Actually the color case hardening on both Uberti and Pietta replicas is a true color case hardening. The Italians use Cyanide as a carburizing agent which is the bath you see in the you tube video. In this country we mostly use the pack method of carburizing. In either case it is not the carburizing agent that is responsible for the colors but the quench that fixes the different temperature colors the steel goes through. The Italians use a rolling aerated quench while here we use a bubbled aerated quench to give the colors as seen in Colt SAA etc. For an excellent demonstration of the pack method watch Larry Potterfield of Midway on Midway's youtube gunsmithing videos show how it is done.

Thanks for your interesting post, sir! That is 1000% more than I ever knew about the subject.

A couple of decades ago I acquired a Remington Rolling Block #5 in 7x57 Mauser, made in 1902 and shipped to Uruguay, and it finally made its way back home. I re-barreled it with a .45-120 octagonal barrel, but only shot loads with
IMR 4895 powder. When I got the rifle it had some parts that needed replacing, so I used the old parts as an experiment for color case. I used a propane torch to heat them to almost a straw color and then quenched them in 30W motor oil (outdoors-no fires inside!) and got what I consider good colors. I doubt there was any hardening done, but they looked great. I sold it to a co-worker about 15 years ago.

I have no pictures that I know of as that was in the day that digital cameras were all but non-existent and it was all about 35mm film.

I would like your opinion about my method.

Regards,

Jim

 

[denster]

Jim

There are all kinds of ways to use heat to color steel. The colors are an oxidation and change with the temperature through a wide range. With color case hardening the colors are a bonus to the surface hardening which is what was sought after. As for just coloring for a finish as you did it was common on early guns to do what was called a niter blue which involved heating the metal evenly in molten niter salts which were around 700 deg F. This produced a very pretty, but not very durable, bright blue.

 

[drobs]

There's a company that sells liquid color case hardening finish:
https://steelfxpatinas.com/color-case-hardening-effect-steel/

I think most gun companies are using a similar product these days.

 

[expat_alaska]

There's a company that sells liquid color case hardening finish:
https://steelfxpatinas.com/color-case-hardening-effect-steel/

Thank you for the link, sir! That appears to be what I am looking for with my Pietta Dance .36 project. It has been on the back burner for quite a while as I did not want to get overwhelmed by other CC operations I have read about.

Now all I have to do is get another Pietta 1851 Navy .36 steel and have my machinist neighbor mill off the recoil shields.

Once again, thanks!

Jim

 

[Mizar]

But Jim, the original Dance Brothers frames were not color-case hardened, or am I mistaken?

Edit: I stand corrected: https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/69/1155/texas-jh-dance-brothers-dragoon-revolver
"The loading lever, wedge and frame are casehardened with muted case colors." Quote from the link above.

 

[expat_alaska]

But Jim, the original Dance Brothers frames were not color-case hardened, or am I mistaken?

Edit: I stand corrected: https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/69/1155/texas-jh-dance-brothers-dragoon-revolver
"The loading lever, wedge and frame are casehardened with muted case colors." Quote from the link above.

Mizar,

I have cataracts in both eyes and have optical surgery scheduled for next month, so your initial statement startled me for a few seconds, as in: am I seeing things?

The link you provided is of an over 150+ year old genuine original pistol so I can imagine the case colors are quite subdued. I looked at the suggested price range and that is why I just do replicas. Some people have lots of money but I am not part of that group. I just like to look at them and fondle them.

My goal is to create a like-new Dance .36 as it "may" have appeared when new in the 1860's (ignoring all of the Italian billboards, date code, and proof marks). I do not de-farb guns as I want them to immediately be recognizable as modern replicas as opposed to someone purchasing it down the road thinking it is an original. Some gun buyers are not as intelligent or as well-versed as you.

After all that is done, I will still have to procure another smooth cylinder and another part octagon/part round barrel. They are available in America from VTI for only slightly less than an entirely new G&G pistol if I can find one, and I want new instead of used/abused. I have been looking for a new Pietta G&G on many sites every other day, have not found one, and I truly believe Pietta has stopped marketing them. Why? I do not know. There seems to somewhat of a demand for them here. Others here have different opinions.

It is going to take some time and money.

Thanks for the reply and have a very good day, sir!

Regards,

Jim