Pillar bedding OCD

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Okay, I am almost absolutely certain that it does not matter one little bit, but here goes...

When pillar bedding a stock, should your pillar inside diamater be as close to the screw diameter as possible, or is a few thousandths gap okay?

Illustration...

Hypothetical screw is .243 (inch)

Should pillar be .245 or .250 or is even .260 okay?
 
A properly bedded rifle should never have any contact between the stock and the action screws. Several thousandths of clearance is preferable.
 
On my mausers, I've used threaded steel pipe. It's sold at most hardware stores as replacement parts for lamps and comes in a several lengths. I don't remember the diameter I use off the top of my head, but it gives pretty good clearance from the action screws. I put tape on the action screws also. I also grind flats on the outside of the pipe threads so it doesn't thread itself out. :D

I just cut it to length for the rear pillar. Not as easy to cut as aluminum or brass, but cheaper and it should expand and contract with temperature at a closer rate to the action screw than other materials.

Matt
 
As others have mentioned, the screws should not touch the bore of the pillar, and the screw should effectively float centered in the pillar.

Most precision builders also do not bed the pillar to have direct action contact - the action rests on the bedding, the bottom metal rests against bedding material, and the pillar bridges the gap between the two layers. Often, folks do let the pillar contact the bottom metal, but floating both ends to ensure no pressure points are created as the bedding shrinks is the best method.

Do you know how to test whether your bedding job was a success?
 
As others have mentioned, the screws should not touch the bore of the pillar, and the screw should effectively float centered in the pillar.

Most precision builders also do not bed the pillar to have direct action contact - the action rests on the bedding, the bottom metal rests against bedding material, and the pillar bridges the gap between the two layers. Often, folks do let the pillar contact the bottom metal, but floating both ends to ensure no pressure points are created as the bedding shrinks is the best method.

Do you know how to test whether your bedding job was a success?

I do not let epoxy touch anything but the stock and the pillar.
I have built ~ 50 rifles for my own use.
I hold the stock wrist in one hand and smack the barrel with my other hand. I should hear an exponentially damped sinusoid with no buzzing.
 
The smacking barrel thing was not what I was thinking of. I did understand that, but only in the context of free floating the barrel. What do you mean by an "exponentially damped sinusoid with no buzzing"?
 
What I want is low compliance coupling between the barrelled action and the stock. This is so that the stock acts as part of the mass in recoil before the bullet exits the muzzle. That time is ~ 0.001 seconds. The sustain of the sine wave shows the connection is stiff. The lack of buzzing shows that there is nothing bumping that could interfere. If it does not make the right sound, I chisel out the bedding and start over.
I was an electrical engineer, but I had to lead mechanical engineers in a few companies while designing parts for fighter aircraft. Each mechanical engineer would usually have in his book case, 3 volumes of books on heat, shock, and vibration by Steinberg. I would have them open it , we would read it together, and come out with a plan to fix our qualification failures.
https://www.amazon.com/Vibration-Analysis-Electronic-Equipment-Steinberg/dp/047137685X. At Boeing they have PhD mechanical engineers that are very knowledgeable about this stuff and they don't need me helping. But at small companies, the job was "what ever it takes". I cam tell you that at high frequency with a strobe light, screws are often not even there in shear.
The V block acts as a force multiplier. I just built a rifle with this two months ago and it shoots very well.
 

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I do not let epoxy touch anything but the stock and the pillar.

My response was not directed to you, so please do not assume it was. My response was directed to the OP.

I personally do not "pillar only" bed any rifle (with the exception of the Savage B-mag) - and I have blocked and bedded a couple hundred rifles for myself and for others in the last 20yrs working for different gunsmiths. Lots of methods work to improve accuracy; bedding only, blocking only, actions resting on pillars, not resting on pillars... What I use has proven to me it offers the most improvement in accuracy with the greatest longevity (short of gluing the action into the stock), and was passed down to me from rifle builders far above my grade (or appropriately, far above a level far above my grade).

I've improved my process over the years, but have come to see the best potential from a method I was given by Boyd Allen a few years ago, which he was given by George Kelby reportedly many years ago, which also effectively matches instruction from Richard Franklin (he uses flat top pillars even on round actions to let the epoxy create the profile. The pillars are bedded into the stock with screws centered/floating, then the action is bedded with a skim of epoxy over the top of the pillars to eliminate the metal-to-metal contact. This prevents the pillars from creating pressure points as the bedding material shrinks.

Do you know how to test whether your bedding job was a success?

No, I don't. But it's too late now! If you do, you could tell me. I won't recoil in shock.

As another engineer and gunbuilder myself, the tuning fork method is pseudo-science at best, and really doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the efficacy of your bedding job - only about resonance of the barreled action, or rather your subjective thought about how something sounds. The point of a bedding job is to produce a consistent, invariable platform of contact and pressure between the action and the stock - this physical relationship is easily measured with real analytical equipment, not subjective and variable human hearing and observation. Anyone can buy a dial indicator with mag base for $50, not everyone wants to drop hundreds if not thousands of dollars on acoustical testing equipment and software - and again - acoustical testing only gives you the resonance properties of the barreled action over the stock, not about the consistency of the bedding pressure from one shot to the next.

To measure your bedding job:

1) Mount the rifle in a support with the barrel horizontal

2) Mount a magnetic base dial indicator to your barrel, indicating off of the front of the stock

3) Loosen the rear action screw and watch the indicator, if no movement, retension the screw and repeat for the front action screw - feel free to give the muzzle a rap with a rubber or plastic mallet here to see if it gains any movement at all after you've "unseated" it.

4) Repeat with the rifle mounted with the barrel vertical

Any movement on the indicator is the give away the bedding job isn't proper.

If your bedding isn't well fit, the action will rock as the screw tension is released. If the bedding job isn't good: In step 3, you'll see movement as the rear screw is released, as the weight of the barrel will be pushing down, levering the rear screw upward. In step 4, you'll see movement as the front screw is released, as the weight of the barrel will be pulling the action out of the stock (upward relative to the boreline if it were horizontal). Typically have to be really bad before the front screw causes movement in the horizontal test or rear in the vertical.
 
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I didn't end up pillar bedding only. I also bedded the recoil lug and the rear of the action. Barrel (just a pretty standard sporter barrel) is free floated except the first couple inches. I have another thread going on the stock, which has been somewhat frustrating, but its all fun...
 
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The first time I glass bedded a rifle, I had a copy of Sweeny's gunsmithing book in one hand.
I got epoxy on my shirt, my pants, my chair, and the rug. The epoxy leaked out of the rifle, but trapped the action. I had to break the stock to get it apart.
I have worked up systems for different rifles. I came up with a universal steel bedding block for Mausers this year, 14 years after I got epoxy on the rug.
 

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For what it's worth, the four people holding the most USA NRA high power match rifle records and winning many matches have conventional epoxy bedding in their conventional rifles' stocks; no pillars at all.

Remember pillar bedding came about because the first synthetic stock's cores in the receiver area were so soft, the 40 to 60 inch pounds of torque needed to properly fit the barreled action to the stock crushed the bedding. Since hard cores are now popular in synthetic stocks is normal, I don't think pillar bedding's needed.
 
Bart, when you were the most accurate rifle shot in the world 19 years ago, you and your peers were using flat bottom receivers. These days many talking about bedding on line are using round bottom receivers. I built both types. The round pillars for round receivers, I cut the tops with a boring head that are a few thousandths smaller inside radius than the bottom of the receiver. The force from the action screws spreads out the tips of the pillars to get the force multiplying effect of a V block connection.
 

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Whatever works the way you think it should is best for you.

That includes receiver's fit to stock repeatability.

My 20 shot 3.25" test group at 800 yards was made using a round receiver conventionally bedded in epoxy.
 
Wow... That site has a lot of pretty pictures... I'm afraid that is a little outside my league though! I'm perfectly happy with 3/4 inch at 100 yds, so obviously you guys are far better than me!

The reason I went with pillar bedding this time is because the holes in the stock really were absolutely massive. It isn't really a hard stock material either. I really just wanted a better fit than what it had. And... It seemed like the perfect opportunity to try it out.
 
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