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Pin Punches, What Kind

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by MoreIsLess, May 16, 2018.

  1. MoreIsLess

    MoreIsLess Member

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    What kind of pin punches do I need for knocking the pins outs of my M&P CORE in order to install the Apex DCAEK, flat or roll pin punches? Brass or steel?
     
  2. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    From images of the M&P, it appears you should get roll pin and roll pin starter punches.
     
  3. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Roll pin punches are good for roll pins. Regular punches for regular pins. Steel. Watch the Apex videos. Prepare for lots of swearing trying to get the trigger spring back in. Don't remove the rear sight ;)

    Ask me how I know
     
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  4. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    From images of the gun I think S&W uses rollpins. @MoreIsLess - what does it use?
     
  5. a5werkes

    a5werkes Member

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    Here's a long winded reply.
    The M&P series retaining pins for the Locking Block Housing up front and the Sear Block Housing in the rear are different styles depending on the "Series" of M&P. The M1.0 series have
    9/64" coiled roll pins; the M2.0 series (latest generation) have 1/8" solid pins. A screwed up looking roll pin end is just as unsightly as a burred screw slot from not taking the care to
    use a proper fitted punch for the task. The roll pins will be tight on the M1.0 series that have not been disassembled before, therefore using a 1/8" short shaft starter roll pin punch to get the pin
    moving will prevent bending a longer shaft punch; finish removal with the longer shaft punch. The reverse is true for installation with the exception that employing a roll pin starter "holding" punch
    prevents marring the pin ends. The retaining pins can be removed in either direction; generally I remove these left to right by convention only, however it is more efficient to remove them
    right to left, as the that is the direction the trigger headed pin has to be removed, so you save flipping the frame over one time! Although the pins are symmetrical front / rear I restore them
    to their original locations and even insert them / remove them by the same end, just because. Sometimes the roll pins can be hard to start back into their holes as the coil of the roll pin may have
    opened up a bit, in that case you can slightly chamfer the end of the pin by turning the pin in a hand drill against 80-120 grit paper, re-blue end as desired.

    The trigger headed pin I usually use a brass punch. Make sure the take down lever stays in the vertical position initially so it will not be blocking the pin from removal.

    The short / long roll pin punches as well as the roll pin starter holding punches can be sourced from Brownells.

    Screen Shot 2018-05-17 at 6.02.25 AM.png IMG_5180 copy.JPG
    CIMG4127 copy.JPG CIMG4134 copy.JPG CIMG4141 copy.JPG CIMG4142 copy.JPG CIMG4143 copy.JPG CIMG4203 copy.JPG DSC00011 copy.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  6. a5werkes

    a5werkes Member

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    Screen Shot 2018-05-17 at 6.54.55 AM.png ............. Gunsmith Roll Pin Chamfering to Ease Installation MJD.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  7. MoreIsLess

    MoreIsLess Member

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    That's some pretty good information to have
     
  8. a5werkes

    a5werkes Member

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    Replacing the trigger spring is quite easy. The Apex kit comes with a polymer slave pin. This one here just happens to be steel. The tip is assemble the the trigger-trigger bar sub-assembly
    outside of the frame ! as you can manipulate the spring loop about the slave pin much easier.stall the sub-assembly and then simply displace the slave pin with the Trigger Headed Pin. No commotion necessary.


    DSCN0585a copy.jpg DSCN0584a copy.jpg
     
  9. MoreIsLess

    MoreIsLess Member

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    So, do we need to use one of those roll pin punches on the slave pin
     
  10. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Yes once you put the assembly back into the frame. However I found my slave pin to be worthless. YMMV
     
  11. MoreIsLess

    MoreIsLess Member

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    Is it important to use a brass hammer wit these brass roll pin punches. I have a steel headed ball peen hammer.
     
  12. a5werkes

    a5werkes Member

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    The Apex slave pin is well-intentioned its just poorly designed; the problem is their pin is tapered on both ends which allows the tensioned trigger pin to fall into the cleft
    between the slave pin and the end of the trigger headed pin, which requires one to pull forward the the spring loop to allow passage of the trigger pin. The space is very limited to
    perform that task without deforming the spring loop. To overcome this problem, a slave pin fabricated from the largest decimal no. drill that will fit freely thru the trigger head pin tract
    is tapered on one end to easily capture the spring loop whereas the opposite end of the slave pin is precisely the same diameter as the trigger pin so there is no space for the
    spring to fall into between them as the trigger pin is advanced to capture the trigger spring. The pin can be installed just as easily with the locking block in the frame as outside the frame
    after you do it a few times. The occasional user, sub-assembly first is the way to go.

    Screen Shot 2018-05-17 at 12.34.48 PM.png CIMG1542 copy.JPG CIMG1544 copy.JPG CIMG1545 copy.JPG Screen Shot 2018-05-17 at 12.35.47 PM.png
     
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  13. boom boom

    boom boom Member

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    Nice job a5werkes. If I ever wanted to change my M&P, I now have the breakdown and specific punches needed. Thanks.
     
  14. MoreIsLess

    MoreIsLess Member

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    This is kind of an addendum to my original post, maybe I should just start another post.

    On the Apex website, on the page where you order the Action Enhancement Kit, there is a disclaimer that says:
    This kit REQUIRES the use of the larger 1/8 inch sear spring and plunger set up. If your M&P has a 1/16th inch diameter sear plunger and spring, we strongly advise you upgrade to a new style sear housing block before installing this product. All function and reliability testing was done with a 1/8 inch sear plunger and spring, therefore we cannot guarantee proper function without the appropriate size sear plunger and spring. Modern sear housing blocks can be found on Brownells.com and other online firearms product retailers.

    Outside of trying to measure the plunger, how do I know if I need if I need to upgrade to the new style sear housing block. The gun is a 9mm C.O.R.E

    Thanks again for the great help provided in this thread
     
  15. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Call apex, or call S&W with your serial number and find out when your CORE was made. Not sure if any COREs were made before the swap to the larger plunger. IMO it probably has the larger plunger.

    However, you're going to have to take it all out anyway so why not measure it?
     
  16. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Do not use a roll pin punch to push in a slave pin. Use a regular punch. Sometimes you can push them in by hand or tap them in with the hammer. YMMV.
     
  17. a5werkes

    a5werkes Member

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    A few final notes regarding the M&P trigger pin installation. Much of the pleasure of gunsmithing is derived from fabricating simple tools or jigs to make
    a task most hate to one that is welcomed. The basic problem with this task is controlling a spring-loaded part in a very small space which is why the
    sub-assembly approach will be easier for most. I use these tools to perform the installation in seconds.
    Finally, a simple modification to the Apex slave pin to make it a little better to use.

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    Last edited: May 19, 2018 at 10:08 AM
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  18. MoreIsLess

    MoreIsLess Member

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    Hi, me again. You've been so very helpful, I'd like to pick your brain some more. Here are a few questions:

    upload_2018-5-22_14-54-5.png
    How do you keep the thin drill bit attached to the slave pin?


    upload_2018-5-22_14-56-33.png

    What is the purpose of the "second" slave pin. Couldn't you just push the trigger headed pin in through the 1st slave pin

    Thanks again
     
  19. a5werkes

    a5werkes Member

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    Ans. # 1. You use the drill bit to create a space in the yellow slave pin, then shaft of the drill bit is secured with Gorilla glue.
    Ans. #2. IF you use the sub-assembly method then the first slave pin is too long, as both ends are now sticking out of the locking block. The second slave pin is the exact width of the locking block so you
    can then drop the sub-assembly into the frame, then push slave pin #2 out with the Trigger Headed Pin. Done.
     
  20. MoreIsLess

    MoreIsLess Member

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    Awesome, once again, thanks. I just got my AEK from Apex in the mail, will install it this weekend
     
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