Pistol 22 LR from the bench? Accuracy?

[Ru4real]

What is considered match grade accuracy shooting with wrists supported, pistol semi-auto 22 LR at 25 yards, ten shot groups?

I'm thinking of testing, but I'd like to know what good should be.

Thank you for any advice.

 

[ontarget]

Good question. I will be eagerly waiting for answers as well!

 

[fxvr5]

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/how-accurate-is-accurate/

 

[Ru4real]

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/how-accurate-is-accurate/

Good article, and that’s one data point. Authors expectation for match 22 pistols from a rest is 1/2” groups, 5 shot, at 25 yards.

So for 10 shots, perhaps 3/4”?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Good article, and that’s one data point. Authors expectation for match 22 pistols from a rest is 1/2” groups, 5 shot, at 25 yards.

So for 10 shots, perhaps 3/4”?

Why would you expect a 50% increase in group size from firing more shots?

I personally believe 5 shot groups are more representative of potential accuracy as it eliminates the factor of "Group Chasing"...plus you can shoot twice as many groups to average out your group size. I've found that 10-shot groups are more the sphere of pistols being shot from a machine rest

I would expect most combat handguns to be able to shoot into 2" at 25 yards from a supported position. A 1" 5-shot group at 25 yards might require a tuned CF pistol...or most RF target (as opposed to plinking) pistols. I would expect a Match Grade RF pistol to hold .5" groups at that distance if the shooter has the capability

 

[Ru4real]

Why would you expect a 50% increase in group size from firing more shots?

I would expect group size to go up, switching from 5 to 10 round groups. I guessed groups opening from 1/2” to 3/4” because that is what my 223’s typically do at 100 yards switching from 5 shot to 10 shot groups. So an educated guess, based on some experience and some probability, but a guess none the less.

What is your guess, switching from 5 to 10 round groups, and why?

 

[fxvr5]

Why would you expect a 50% increase in group size from firing more shots?

More shots generally means a larger group size.

I personally believe 5 shot groups are more representative of potential accuracy as it eliminates the factor of "Group Chasing"...plus you can shoot twice as many groups to average out your group size. I've found that 10-shot groups are more the sphere of pistols being shot from a machine rest

5-shot groups have limitations. More shots per group produces a more accurate reflection of the gun/ammo accuracy, and that is the whole reason for the test.

I would expect most combat handguns to be able to shoot into 2" at 25 yards from a supported position. A 1" 5-shot group at 25 yards might require a tuned CF pistol...or most RF target (as opposed to plinking) pistols. I would expect a Match Grade RF pistol to hold .5" groups at that distance if the shooter has the capability

2" is pretty optimistic for a combat handgun. 4-5" is more typical. One could get a 2" group from a 4-5" gun, but that's just random.

 

[9mmepiphany]

What is your guess, switching from 5 to 10 round groups, and why?

I would not expect it to be enlarged at all. I would expect the shots to fill in the space between the existing holes.

When I shoot at 25 yards, with a handgun, when testing for accuracy, I don't aim at the point I expect the shots to impact. I try to shoot at a point above where the shots will fall. That allows me to have a consistent aiming point and not be influenced by the existing group printed by the first shots. The eye is naturally drawn to the center of a group on paper and will cause the center of the group to "drift" in that direction.

Most of my work at that distance has been with CF pistols that I shooting in Action Pistol games. I would expect a match grade RF to be more consistent if I can maintain good trigger management and not be tempted by anticipation and expectation

 

[9mmepiphany]

2" is pretty optimistic for a combat handgun. 4-5" is more typical.

I would find a combat handgun which wasn't able to hold a 4" group at 50 yards unacceptable...that is only 2" off center in any direction from your POA

 

[Ru4real]

5-shot groups have limitations. More shots per group produces a more accurate reflection of the gun/ammo accuracy, and that is the whole reason for the test.

I agree, especially for 22 rimfire. I bet others share my experience with 22 rifle at 25 yards, which is often this:

8 or 9 in a ragged one hole clump with one or two outside the clump. It’s happened enough on the same days that all 10 went into a one hole clump that it makes me believe it’s the ammo.

Federal, Winchester, CCI, Remington

 

[Ru4real]

I would not expect it to be enlarged at all. I would expect the shots to fill in the space between the existing holes.

Interesting. I wish I had that experience. I’ve shot 3 shot and 5 shot groups to the same size, but I’ve considered the 5-shot-same-size-as-3-shot a fluke, or not typical.

I don’t think I’ve shot a 10 round group as tight as a 3 or 5 round group; if I have I cannot remember nor do I have records to prove.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I’ve never shot a 10 round group as tight as a 3 or 5 round group.

Try adjusting your scope/sights to aim at a point above where your rounds will impact the target. Don't aim at a circle. Try a shape that will offer a definitive aiming point ( like the tip of a triangle) and also offer lateral references. I shoot at 1" squares turned on a tip or an inverted pyramid on a line

 

[fxvr5]

I would find a combat handgun which wasn't able to hold a 4" group at 50 yards unacceptable.

I suspect that you would find most combat handguns unacceptable given your criteria.

 

[Ru4real]

Try adjusting your scope/sights to aim at a point above where your rounds will impact the target. Don't aim at a circle. Try a shape that will offer a definitive aiming point ( like the tip of a triangle) and also offer lateral references. I shoot at 1" squares turned on a tip or an inverted pyramid on a line

With centerfire handguns, open sights, I shoot at 1” diamond bullseyes when I’m shooting for accuracy for the exact reasons you mention.

A guy can get good at shooting at circles, too. I learned it well when I shot competitively, small bore 4 position, for my college rifle team.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I suspect that you would find most combat handguns unacceptable given your criteria.

My SIG P320 will do it, as will my P220ST and P226ST...my alloy frame 220 has gotten loose over thousands of rounds and I'm not sure if it will still hold quite as tightly. My S&W M&P9 wouldn't, until I swapped in an Apex Tactical barrel. The easiest pistol to meet that criteria was my H&K P7...both the PSP and and M8

 

[9mmepiphany]

I learned it well when I shot competitively, small bore 4 position, for my college rifle team.

I have fond memories of shooting Small Bore 4 Position on my high school rifle team...in San Francisco. More Club competition than anything else. We were shooting the Winchester 52D and Remington 513 provided by the school's ROTC

 

[The Glockodile]

It be "match" when it go ding!!!

I canna barely see the target!

Went largely by feedback!

 

[tbs]

Here is a 60 shot group at 25 yards.
View attachment 1003653

 

[243winxb]

What is considered match grade accuracy shooting with wrists supported, pistol semi-auto 22 LR at 25 yards, ten shot groups

Iron sights, scope or aim point? Makes a BIG difference. 1.5" or smaller 10 shot groups.

A Precision Pistol 25 yard target score may give a clue to overall accuracy?

View attachment 1003656

 

[243winxb]

I would find a combat handgun which wasn't able to hold a 4" group at 50 yards unacceptable...

This standard would make many unacceptable. The NRA Magazine does testing. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...acy-advise-please.887782/page-2#post-11910146

There are a few that can, just have to find one.

 

[Rule3]

Gee talk about a thread DRIFT!

The question was about 22lr. Even the article is convoluted mixing in centerfire??

A LOT has to do not only with the actually gun used but the AMMUNITION. Pleas the only way to determine accuracy is with a locked ransom rest to eliminate the human factor,

Sound like a 10 page thread over at RimFire Central!

 

[Ru4real]

Iron sights, scope or aim point? Makes a BIG difference. 1.5" or smaller 10 shot groups.

I agree. Currently I have one with iron sights, a second with 4x scope and a third with a Bushnell dot.

As part of the test, I will shoot all 3 and post the results.

Thanks for providing your opinion of 1.5" at 25 yards, 10 shots.

 

[Ru4real]

Anyone with experience for 22 LR pistol, 25 yard resting groups?

Maybe it’s not a thing?

 

[SimonRL]

I have a TX22 Competition with a red dot and it will easily shoot a 1” 5-shot group at 25yds. I just recently started using a pyramid target and it really draws you in.

 

[SW351C]

There was a time when 5 shot groups with 1 thrown out was the norm. Now that I’ve aged I throw out 2.