Pistol cartridge rifle vs Rifle cartridge pistol

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by sarduy, Mar 10, 2022.

?

PCR vs RCP

Poll closed Apr 15, 2022.
  1. PCR “Pistol caliber rifle”

    60 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. RCP “Rifle caliber pistol”

    15 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    I think this subject covers more ground than the OP anticipated. What are we talking about here?

    This:
    Contender%2001.jpg

    Or this???
    003.jpg
     
  2. Australian410hunter

    Australian410hunter Member

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    If shooting indoors, or at shorter ranges, the .38special +p serrated hollow point, does the job, is slightly kinder to the ears, and will have you back on target faster. 125gn .357m are the next step up, however I found that, by the time you get to full noise 158gn .357m, in a pistol the noise, flash, and barrel flip make rapid followups almost impossible! Some people, who spend a lot of time shooting could probably do it, but as an average hack I cannot.
    I will admit I enjoyed .44m long barreled revolvers, but only for mucking about, not as a carry firearm.
    And yes, we are both on the same page, re reducing power of rounds, to suit the situation.
     
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  3. Australian410hunter

    Australian410hunter Member

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    :rofl: Exactly... you are 'improving' performance, enhancing efficiency, with both an increase in velocity, and length of sighting plane!:cool: And it works!
     
  4. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    I think that there should be two more categories:
    • PCC - Pistol caliber carbines, and:
    • CCP - Carbine caliber pistols
    Most of the rifles mentioned above are actually carbines.
    Most of the rifle caliber pistols mentioned above use rounds that were really designed for use in carbines.
    -And, yes, it matters.
     
  5. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Why does it matter?

    Pistol caliber carbines vs Pistol caliber rifles is getting a pretty fine and requires a pretty good definition of the two terms, Unfortunately both of those terms have had pretty fuzzy definitions that have change through out history and thus a fair bit of overlap between a rifle and carbine especially when it comes to barrel length. For example, a 20 inch barrel is a carbine in some eras and a rifle in others.

    I would also be interested in a succinct definition of carbine caliber too. For example is 5.56x45mm a rifle or carbine cartridge?
     
  6. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    That's my problem with the poll there's just way too much overlap and grey areas.
     
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  7. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    To me the pistol caliber in the rifle makes sense for fun, defensive use, or hunting in one of those places where "normal" rifle rounds are restricted. The rifle round in a handgun only makes sense to me for hunting, under circumstances/regs where it is a handgun only situation. No such thing exists here or anywhere I have ever lived, so I have no experience in the matter.
     
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  8. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Poll should have had a choice for "neither" really.

    I had an XP100 in .308 (won the thing, actually). As to Fish or Fowl, it was a platypus.
    It really did not do anything well.
    Wasn't big enough for long-range work.
    Was too heavy to carry around.
    THE LER scope was not as good as a "regular" scope at the same price.
     
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  9. jdc1244

    jdc1244 Member

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    That’s what I thought when I saw the thread title – revolvers chambered in rifle cartridges.
     
  10. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I don’t find either terribly interesting, but between the two I’d prefer a rifle caliber pistol.

    Especially something like .300 BLK that can be loaded heavy subsonic if the flash and noise is too much.
     
  11. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    300 BLK with a 110 gr bullet can be compared with 30 Carbine performance. 30 Carbine can be loaded to 2K fps using 110 gr bullets and H-110. That might be the attraction. Light, compact, low noise, low recoil, and 200 yd capable. You just can't do that with a pistol cartridge. But maybe you don't want to, IDK.

    If it weighs over 5 lbs I want a SBR or carbine. A brace doesn't make it a pistol except in the alternate universe where the ATF lives. That definition isn't going to survive much longer. Hide and watch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
  12. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    -Most of the "Rifle caliber pistol" loads that I've seen so far in this discussion have been either loads that were designed for carbines and pistols or reduced power sub-sonic loads.
    That's why I suggested the other categories.
     
  13. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    I tend to agree with what you guys are saying but a long cylinder BFR in 30-30 or 45-70 don't exactly meet the legal definition of "held in one hand" and I would argue that a braced 8" AR is easier to shoot that way.
    I'm still not sure 300 Blackout qualifies as a rifle round as J D Jones originally developed the 300 Whisper in a Contender and without splitting hairs 300 Blackout and 357 Magnum are ballistic twins.
    I had a Contender and while they're great guns I lost interest, and the long cylinder BFRs are unwieldy to me I prefer to get my hand cannon power the old fashioned way and launch 400+ grain boolets from a normalish size revolver 5.25" 475/480 BFR.
    IMG-20120404-00462.jpg

    Which is way more powerful than my rifle??? caliber pistol 8" 300 Blackout
    20210228_152204.jpg
    As to PCC I love magnum revolver cartridges in lever guns and my 16" Rossi '92 44 Mag with a 300gr XTP would be IMHO a better choice than a 5.56 or 7.62x39 for toothy game.
    20201127_083015.jpg
    A PCC auto chambered in 9mm 40 or 45 would be a solid choice for the one long gun for home defense for the non-reloader that just shoots enough to maintain proficiency on a budget. Once you start reloading, shooting a lot or removing budget constraints a braced 300 blackout AR is IMHO a way better defensive weapon.
    I done blown the budget constraints out of the water and double stamped my 12.5" 5.56 AR SBR.
    20220220_191740.jpg
    And if I want cheap practice I have a nearly identical 22 LR AR same optic and Larue trigger with a 16" barrel an faux suppressor/linear comp.
    20210125_181435.jpg
    For the record my SBR is technically a pistol is I stick my Magpul BTR brace on it.
    only-the-atf-can-be-this-wheels-stupid-delta-s-10472987.png
     
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  14. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    I think a rifle caliber pistol of any size to be unpleasant at best, unmanageable at worst.
     
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  15. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Come now, a full auto 12 inch 308 is concussive fun and doubles as a short range flame thrower.

    I do agree, most rifle cartridges in barrel much short than 20-inch don't do a lot for me. The exception being 300 AAC Blackout. I am really having fun with and using my 300 BO braced AR's (5-inch and 9-inch) a lot and enjoying them. Though I think a good argument can be made 300 BO is not a "real" rifle cartridge but a carbine cartridge is such a definition can be made/accepted.

    That said pistol caliber rifles really only interest me in lever guns. I would rather have my 300 BO than a 9/40/45 caliber AR pistol/SBR.
     
  16. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    Like @mcb said the 300 BO isn't bad especially with a linear compensator or blast can of some nature. My 12.5" 5.56 is definitely unpleasant without the suppressor the 2 chamber griffin paladin brake is very effective for recoil the gun doesn't seem to move at all but that could just be a side effect of the concussion. 20210316_213751.jpg
     
  17. illinoisburt

    illinoisburt Member

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    Not sure there technically is such a thing as 'carbine cartridge'. When the 30-carbine was developed it was categorized as a centerfire light rifle round, which honestly is the same general name used for any centerfire small arms ammunition up to 50 caliber used in long arms. Given carbines are reduced size rifles I think it falls into different without a difference status.
     
  18. valnar

    valnar Member

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    One maximizes the speed with the powder used, and one does the opposite.
     
  19. 230RN
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    230RN Educate, not indoctrinate .

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    I suspect, but cannot prove, that 5 shots of a substantial rifle cartridge in a pistol less than three pounds will result in a naked-eye visible flinch.

    Unless your surname is Bunyan. Paul, that is.
     
  20. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    I only own one and got it around 1966. Pictured in the foreground is my Ruger 44 Magnum carbine which I hunted West Virginia with for many years.

    22%20and%2044.png

    I complimented it with my S&W Model 29. Beyond that old rifle I have no real desire to own anything else in either family.

    Ron
     
  21. .45Coltguy

    .45Coltguy Member

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    I no longer hunt deer, elk etc, so most of my "deer" rifles were sold to purchase a couple of Henry's. A .357 Classic and a .45 Colt. Pretty much just for desert plinking.
    And this they do nicely.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
  22. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    I wouldn't say "no matter what"
    A Heiser 223 produces 240 ft bls of energy vs my Marlin 1894 at 1600 ft lbs.
    My 9mm 16" AR produces around 540 ft lbs., but that doesn't compare to a IMI/IWI BFR in 45-70 running 1800 ft lbs.

    Ultimately, you really need to exclude rifle based pistols and S & W X frames to make this count.

    The Marlin 1894 is considered a conventional rifle.
    The Super Blackhawk 30 M1C is considered a conventional Pistol.
    A .308 auto with no stock and a 15.99" barrel may be a pistol, but at that point, why not just go rifle?
    In thought exercise, someone made a .600 Nitro Express pistol (Midway didn't invent the term) with about 7600 ft lbs energy. About 3X my .308 rifle. For anyone who reads the reference, they use US LBS with several decimal points, and at first, it looks like they got the weight off.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeifer_Zeliska_.600_Nitro_Express_revolver
     
  23. Archie

    Archie Member

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    I didn't think of that one. You got me.
     
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  24. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    Same here. :)

    Ron
     
  25. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    Backpack Banshee: 40 S&W 30 rds in one ragged 2" hole at 25 yds. Good power out to 100. No recoil, very quick.
    Technically this is a pistol caliber pistol.

    Did I mention very quick ?

    upload_2022-4-8_18-42-1.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
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