Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by sarduy, Mar 10, 2022.
If shooting indoors, or at shorter ranges, the .38special +p serrated hollow point, does the job, is slightly kinder to the ears, and will have you back on target faster. 125gn .357m are the next step up, however I found that, by the time you get to full noise 158gn .357m, in a pistol the noise, flash, and barrel flip make rapid followups almost impossible! Some people, who spend a lot of time shooting could probably do it, but as an average hack I cannot.
I will admit I enjoyed .44m long barreled revolvers, but only for mucking about, not as a carry firearm.
And yes, we are both on the same page, re reducing power of rounds, to suit the situation.
Exactly... you are 'improving' performance, enhancing efficiency, with both an increase in velocity, and length of sighting plane! And it works!
PCC - Pistol caliber carbines, and:
CCP - Carbine caliber pistols
Most of the rifles mentioned above are actually carbines.
Most of the rifle caliber pistols mentioned above use rounds that were really designed for use in carbines.
-And, yes, it matters.
Why does it matter?
Pistol caliber carbines vs Pistol caliber rifles is getting a pretty fine and requires a pretty good definition of the two terms, Unfortunately both of those terms have had pretty fuzzy definitions that have change through out history and thus a fair bit of overlap between a rifle and carbine especially when it comes to barrel length. For example, a 20 inch barrel is a carbine in some eras and a rifle in others.
I would also be interested in a succinct definition of carbine caliber too. For example is 5.56x45mm a rifle or carbine cartridge?
That's my problem with the poll there's just way too much overlap and grey areas.
I had an XP100 in .308 (won the thing, actually). As to Fish or Fowl, it was a platypus.
It really did not do anything well.
Wasn't big enough for long-range work.
Was too heavy to carry around.
THE LER scope was not as good as a "regular" scope at the same price.
That’s what I thought when I saw the thread title – revolvers chambered in rifle cartridges.
Especially something like .300 BLK that can be loaded heavy subsonic if the flash and noise is too much.
300 BLK with a 110 gr bullet can be compared with 30 Carbine performance. 30 Carbine can be loaded to 2K fps using 110 gr bullets and H-110. That might be the attraction. Light, compact, low noise, low recoil, and 200 yd capable. You just can't do that with a pistol cartridge. But maybe you don't want to, IDK.
If it weighs over 5 lbs I want a SBR or carbine. A brace doesn't make it a pistol except in the alternate universe where the ATF lives. That definition isn't going to survive much longer. Hide and watch.
That's why I suggested the other categories.
I tend to agree with what you guys are saying but a long cylinder BFR in 30-30 or 45-70 don't exactly meet the legal definition of "held in one hand" and I would argue that a braced 8" AR is easier to shoot that way.
I'm still not sure 300 Blackout qualifies as a rifle round as J D Jones originally developed the 300 Whisper in a Contender and without splitting hairs 300 Blackout and 357 Magnum are ballistic twins.
I had a Contender and while they're great guns I lost interest, and the long cylinder BFRs are unwieldy to me I prefer to get my hand cannon power the old fashioned way and launch 400+ grain boolets from a normalish size revolver 5.25" 475/480 BFR.
Which is way more powerful than my rifle??? caliber pistol 8" 300 Blackout
As to PCC I love magnum revolver cartridges in lever guns and my 16" Rossi '92 44 Mag with a 300gr XTP would be IMHO a better choice than a 5.56 or 7.62x39 for toothy game.
A PCC auto chambered in 9mm 40 or 45 would be a solid choice for the one long gun for home defense for the non-reloader that just shoots enough to maintain proficiency on a budget. Once you start reloading, shooting a lot or removing budget constraints a braced 300 blackout AR is IMHO a way better defensive weapon.
I done blown the budget constraints out of the water and double stamped my 12.5" 5.56 AR SBR.
And if I want cheap practice I have a nearly identical 22 LR AR same optic and Larue trigger with a 16" barrel an faux suppressor/linear comp.
For the record my SBR is technically a pistol is I stick my Magpul BTR brace on it.
I think a rifle caliber pistol of any size to be unpleasant at best, unmanageable at worst.
Come now, a full auto 12 inch 308 is concussive fun and doubles as a short range flame thrower.
I do agree, most rifle cartridges in barrel much short than 20-inch don't do a lot for me. The exception being 300 AAC Blackout. I am really having fun with and using my 300 BO braced AR's (5-inch and 9-inch) a lot and enjoying them. Though I think a good argument can be made 300 BO is not a "real" rifle cartridge but a carbine cartridge is such a definition can be made/accepted.
That said pistol caliber rifles really only interest me in lever guns. I would rather have my 300 BO than a 9/40/45 caliber AR pistol/SBR.
Like @mcb said the 300 BO isn't bad especially with a linear compensator or blast can of some nature. My 12.5" 5.56 is definitely unpleasant without the suppressor the 2 chamber griffin paladin brake is very effective for recoil the gun doesn't seem to move at all but that could just be a side effect of the concussion.
Not sure there technically is such a thing as 'carbine cartridge'. When the 30-carbine was developed it was categorized as a centerfire light rifle round, which honestly is the same general name used for any centerfire small arms ammunition up to 50 caliber used in long arms. Given carbines are reduced size rifles I think it falls into different without a difference status.
Unless your surname is Bunyan. Paul, that is.
I complimented it with my S&W Model 29. Beyond that old rifle I have no real desire to own anything else in either family.
And this they do nicely.
A Heiser 223 produces 240 ft bls of energy vs my Marlin 1894 at 1600 ft lbs.
My 9mm 16" AR produces around 540 ft lbs., but that doesn't compare to a IMI/IWI BFR in 45-70 running 1800 ft lbs.
Ultimately, you really need to exclude rifle based pistols and S & W X frames to make this count.
The Marlin 1894 is considered a conventional rifle.
The Super Blackhawk 30 M1C is considered a conventional Pistol.
A .308 auto with no stock and a 15.99" barrel may be a pistol, but at that point, why not just go rifle?
In thought exercise, someone made a .600 Nitro Express pistol (Midway didn't invent the term) with about 7600 ft lbs energy. About 3X my .308 rifle. For anyone who reads the reference, they use US LBS with several decimal points, and at first, it looks like they got the weight off.
I didn't think of that one. You got me.
Technically this is a pistol caliber pistol.
Did I mention very quick ?
Separate names with a comma.