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pistols with stocks question...

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by DammitBoy, Apr 4, 2010.

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  1. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    If you attached a stock like on an old Browning Hi-Power or a Luger or the Broomhandle Mauser to the pistol, does this make it an NFA item?

    Is it Class III or Class II?

    Color me confused.
     
  2. crushbup

    crushbup Member

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    The ATF has exemptions for certain C&R handguns. IIRC, you can't just put a stock on any old Hi-Power, it has to be one that was made for use with a stock.
     
  3. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Couple of answers:

    First off: The whole "Class III" nomenclature issue. The guns aren't "Class II" or "Class III." All firearms are divided into categories as to how they are regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934. "Title I" of the NFA covers rifles, shotguns, and handguns." "Title II" covers the more regulated items like machine guns, silencers, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices, and "Any Other Weapons."

    The "Class" confusion ("There you go, bringing CLASS into it again!" -- Obligatory Holy Grail reference.) is how the different FFL licensees that may work with Title II regulated firearms are taxed. A manufacturer of these guns must hold a manufacturer's FFL and pay the "Special Occupational Tax -- Class 02." A dealer who sells machine guns, SBRs, etc. must hold a dealer's FFL and pay the "Special Occupational Tax -- Class 03." So you have "Class 03 dealers" but not "Class 03" GUNS.

    Make sense? Not really, but there it is. ;)

    ----------------------------

    Regarding Hi-Powers, c-96 Mausers, etc.: Certain guns are exempt due to historic status. But, like most things the ATF does, they are exempt by specific serial number, not as a general class of item. So, some Mausers can be fitted with the shoulder stocks, but not most. Further, it has been ruled that they can only be fitted with ORIGINAL shoulder stocks, not reproductions. There is a lot of this information available on-line. I'll try to dig some up for you.
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Here's a quote I pulled off of TFL which sheds some light:

    Unfortunately, those links are broken, but I'm sure you can search them out if you need to.
     
  5. rocky branch

    rocky branch Member

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    You can put an original or repro stock on a 8 inch artillery luger.
    Same-same Navy Luger.
    No go for a standard Luger.

    Same goes for M96 Mausers.
    HPs also must be of original types.

    That should be crystal clear-or not.
     
  6. Dimis

    Dimis Member

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    hmmm now im curious

    how do you add a stock to a modern handgun then?

    example being ive seen stocks on Glock 18s (yes i know gotta be pre 86 etc etc)

    but lets say you wanted to put a stock on your Glock 17? (which ive seen done as well)

    do you just register as an SBR? and if so how does that effect the firearm ownership if you decide to ditch the stock (the glock ones ive seen are detatchable)

    sorry for the highjack but got me thinking
     
  7. rfurtkamp

    rfurtkamp Member

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    Putting a stock on an existing pistol (G17 or whatever) is a Form 1 and $200.

    There are conflicting letters floating around as to whether or not you can return it to non-rifle status (since you have put a stock on it).
     
  8. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    G17 would have to be registered as a Short Barreled Rifle before you add the stock.

    You can't "unregister" it.

    A question I've never seen answered is, once you have your SBR G17, say you want to move to, or travel to AL or NC or WA, or some other state that doesn't allow SBRs, are you forbidden to bring that weapon because it is REGISTERED as an SBR, or would that only be illegal if configured as an SBR?

    I'd assume you'd have to file a Form 5320.20 in any case, and the ATF would tell you (disapprove the form) if it was illegal, but I don't know for sure how this would actually work, legally.

    Would the registered status be enough to make possession of that G17 illegal in WA, for example, or would it only be illegal if actually assembled as an SBR at that moment?
     
  9. rfurtkamp

    rfurtkamp Member

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    There's a letter floating around saying it's ok to do with a rifle returned to normal configuration for travel purposes - as long as it's not configured as a SBR at the time.

    On a pistol, it's a who knows. Given conflicting letters on returning pistol-to-sbr Form 1s (which variously state that it's OK or it's a rifle and needs to be 26" OAL/16" barrel), this one anyone's best guess.
     
  10. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Unless it’s a machine gun then you can add the stock without any additional paper work.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    That was my post on TFL. Several months ago the ATF Tech Branch letters disappeared from that server. I blame the Obama administration an/or aliens for this disappearance.

    Here is a list of Tech Branch letters: http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/law.html

    It is my understanding that ATF keeps these individual letters organized by date, not subject, which makes cross referencing impossible. This probably explains why there are conflicting opinions as to the legality of "replica" vs. "original" stocks.

    http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter58.txt
    http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter70.txt

     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Sweet! Thanks for the update!
     
  13. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Get a letter from ATF FTB and keep it with gun

    To my 25 Jun 2002 letter to ATF firearms & technology branch, the 3 Jan 2003 response was that the original Mauser pistol with original shoulder stock produced prior to 1940 was a curio or relic, not subject to the 34NFA (Title II) as an SBR, but still subject to 68GCA (Title I) as a handgun. (Mine is in the 107,000 serial number range indicating pre-WWI (1912-1913) manufacture.)

    The letter was signed by Curtis H.A. Bartlett, Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
    ADDED:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    I keep a copy of my letter in the case with the gun and retain the original in a safe place.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  14. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Awesome! Thanks Carl!
     
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