Planting a seed

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Armored farmer, Nov 16, 2021.

  1. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Being a farmer, I have planted tons of seeds over the last 40 years
    Today I'm going to plant a thought. I hope some of it lands on fertile ground, although I'm certain some will land among the rocks and thistles.
    It's my hope that my THR friends do NOT get so caught up in talk, posts, training, gear, and guns....that they (you and me) get overzealous and too eager to pull a gun and put our training to use.

    Here's another thought:
    Does the capability of your ccw have ANY bearing on whether or when you might draw your weapon?



    I hope that a large part of our training covers avoidance.

    I let this post sit all day, that I might reconsider posting it
     
  2. armedwalleye

    armedwalleye Member

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    In support of your thoughts, I hope the discussions presently occurring are a bit of a wake up call or inaction.

    With all the discussions, better we support one another to stay on point, stay vigilant, or become more so, be aware of what’s happening and be prepared.

    Preparing oneself appears to outsiders very much the same as being complacent would. It’s those perceptions that provide our strengths.
     
  3. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    Bluster and bravado is useless wind. Those I’ve seen over the years spouting off the most are the ones who fall in it the deepest when it is all said and done.

    The wisest of men prepare themselves mentally and physically for trouble, but do all that they can to avoid it.

    Sometimes trouble comes seeking you, and no matter what actions you take, some level of response is clearly unavoidable.

    It is for these reasons, and these reasons alone, that people should prepare their mind and body; seek out tools and continued training, for such a rare encounter.

    Practice to stay sharp, and do your best to avoid putting yourself or others in a stupid situation that blows up in your face. :thumbup:

    Stay safe.
     
  4. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    I think it tempers it. Whether and when isnt up to me either. That choice is made by someone else.
     
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  5. CoalCrackerAl

    CoalCrackerAl Member

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    Drawing my weapon is the last thing i would want to do. Avoiding trouble is my 1st defense. I stay away from areas that can be a potential trouble area. I don't worry about the capacity of my carry gun. Im not going to put myself where there could be a shootout.
     
  6. Seedy Character

    Seedy Character Member

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    1. Vigilance in situational awareness. Avoid potential or known "bad areas"
    2. Avoidance, when possible.
    3. My EDC is capable. Only reason to draw is when forced.
    4. Family attacked. I don't care what happens to me. Bad guys going down.

    Do it want to use deadly force?
    Absolutely no. #1 #2
    Am I prepared to use it?
    I carry a 1911 .45 and 25 rounds #3
    Whether and when i draw my EDC?
    #1 #2 #3 #4

    Not a Rambo, not a hero, not a badass.
    A husband, Dad, Granddad, soon to be Great-Granddad. Threaten my family, what will be, will be.

    We met Daughter and family in OKC. Was getting close to school starting, so went to a Mall. It was fairly crowded, lots of families.

    About 6pm, I noticed the crowd thinning. Seemed to be more Security walking the floor.

    About 6:30 the make up of the crowd was definelitely different and Security was much heavier.

    Wife, Daughter and Granddaughter had gone into a store. Grandson and Son-in-Law had gone into the store across from the wimmens.
    I am standing in the walkway, watching both

    2 hood rats start into sports store. I stops at doorway and appears to signal 2 rats, a couple of stores down.

    I waved at S-i-L (ex-Marine) and point a Grandson. First rat is moving in behind him.
    2nd rat is approaching from front.
    S-i-L grabs a skateboard and moves behind him
    I move behind a column, keeping wimmens to my back and watch rat 3&4.

    Rat 1 can me through the window and turns away. Causing rat 2 to look back. I have my hand on my still holstered, invisible 1911. He notices S-i-L getting close, skateboard ready. His EDC is visible, his shirt lifted clear.
    Rat 3&4 see 1 and 2 moving to door.
    They meet at door. I flag down 2 Security and point them out. The chase is on.

    Family all come out and i tell them it is time to leave. Daughter wants to go to some store. I said it is time to leave. Wife asked what is going on? S-i-L says we are leaving.

    We get to vehicles and Wife says the crowd changed a lot in only and hour. I told her yes, I seen it and hour ago. Remember what I told you about paying attention.

    Grandson never noticed anything happening
    I never had to show gun, much less pull or use, and thankful I didn't, but was prepared to.
    S-i-L prepared and ready. Wimmens unaware.
    Family safe
    Trouble avoided
    It was a good day

    We found out later, that Mall was known for problems after 6pm, yet perfectly safe, before 6.
     
  7. BLACKHAWKNJ

    BLACKHAWKNJ Member

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    I agree, avoidance is best, but having a CCW and the training that should go with it is like the spare tire in the car, the first aid kit, the fire extinguisher, etc. "It is better to have them and not need them than....." And I was an Eagle Scout-"BE PREPARED !"
     
  8. entropy

    entropy Member

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    As far as an EDC being capable, the mind is the weapon. Everything else is just tools. Situational awareness is the key.

    As Gen. Mattis said,

    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
     
  9. Pat Riot
    • Contributing Member

    Pat Riot Contributing Member

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    I’ll take those seeds. Consider them planted.
    That’s a very good reminder.

    A long time ago, 1983, I took a tactical shooting course put on by an LAPD SWAT officer. The training was training for tactical pistol shooting and competitions, but like any training the l, what I call, “War Fantasies” began. Guys being guys discussing events that almost happened or what they would do “If…”
    The instructor politely diverted the conversation to “What if” scenarios and what could be the possible outcomes and ramifications if people did as they said they should or would do.
    All of a sudden a lot of Machismo deflated.
    I retained more knowledge about that discussion than anything else I learned that day.
    The ramifications of a shooting can be quite staggering.
     
  10. DTL

    DTL Member

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    I for one am a lot more comfortable with and around quietly discrete CCW holders. Much more so than those bent on ostentatious, Rambo-like displays for bravado. Train, practice, prepare for security, discretion for the image we put forth to the uneducated, non-gun owners who vote and help elect those bent on suppressing our rights.
     
  11. SundownRider

    SundownRider Member

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    This is an interesting thread and I’m glad it was brought up. I have been carrying as long as I have been legally able, but have never needed to draw (praise be) because of exactly what you are describing. In the age of tiny screens dominating attention, situational awareness has gone the way of the dodo.
    If I even “feel” something is off, I will take my family and leave. I can handle most 1 on 1 threats, but at my age I’m too tired to want to. Put my family in there, and I won’t risk confrontation.
    If forced, story is different. I’m peaceful, but that doesn’t mean I won’t get violent to protect my loved ones.
     
  12. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    No
     
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  13. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I took the question to be about what I'm carrying, not if I'm carrying.

    It doesn't matter if I'm carrying only my LCP-MAX or one of the "normal" days I'm carrying a G2C, the LCP-MAX, and a NAA Mini. Nothing comes out unless the need for anything does. Then, the largest I can get to bear will come out. The exception to "the largest" rule would be if I already had a hand on a secondary gun in a pocket as a means of discretion in anticipation of a hazard; then, that one might come out first.
     
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  14. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Why carry a handgun that you don't deem capable, unless limited by work attire?
    Its hot and I don't feel like carrying bigger than a pocket whatever is not limited by work attire.

    I've had concealed carry about 30 years, Glock 19 is my minimum carry, in a "good area" in the heat.
    I've never "needed" a gun and pray I don't; but if I unfortunately ever do, I'm carrying something decent (>= 9mm) even if I'm in a nice spot. ;)
    Handgun is a last resort that will hopefully stop/prevent imminent physical injury or death and do so ASAP. (9mm minimum)
     
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  15. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    I took the "capable" part of the comment to mean both the gun and your skill with it. One without the other makes either pretty much useless.
     
  16. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Yes
    Thus is exactly why I started this thread....
    We train. We practice. We upgrade to the most capable and lethal. We read and watch the news about all sorts of dirty deeds...


    This thread was intended as a reminder to keep our cool.
     
  17. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    The one fight you never lose is the one you don't engage in.
     
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  18. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Good advice. And not enough thought goes into this. While neither were personal friends I know of 2 cops who eventually committed suicide after being forced to take another life. Both shoots were investigated and ruled good shoots. But they still had issues.

    And the long term ramifications have to be considered. If you shoot someone, no matter how justified, there is a very good chance you'll end up in civil court even if cleared legally.
     
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  19. deadeye dick

    deadeye dick Member

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    Those cops probably had other issues. Being 83 yrs old, if some dirtbag threatened me or my wife with bodily harm either in my home or on the street i would drop him in a N.Y. second and sleep very well indeed.
     
  20. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Well. Someone ain't been watching the news lately.

    But no. Just because I have a spoon in my pocket, doesn't automatically mean that I want to stab you with it.
     
  21. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    It's not always that cut and dried. The one case I'm most familiar with was ruled "suicide by cop" A distraught 18 year old wanted to die, but didn't have the courage to pull the trigger. He assaulted his girlfriend and waited for the police to show up. A rather intense few minutes passed before he pointed his gun at the cop. His training took over and he did what he was trained to do.

    The young mans dad knew his son well enough to understand. Mom never accepted the ruling and very publicly labeled the cop a murderer and wouldn't let it go. After several years it finally took it's toll.
     
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  22. AK Hunter

    AK Hunter Member

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    I can take a lot of cursing, bad names, & maybe a punch or two. But If I feel my life is in danger is the only time my gun comes out of my pocket. Because shooting someone is the last thing I want to do but if it comes to my life or theirs, it's going to be theirs if I have anything to do with it.
     
  23. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    I've been lucky. Twice I had to draw and aim at someone. In both cases a man was attempting to hurt a woman I knew. In both cases the men left immediately, as fast as they could. I was glad. I don't want to kill anyone. I would have done it, but I don't want to have to live with that. I don't want to kill someone's son, brother, father, etc.
     
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  24. WheelGunMan

    WheelGunMan Member

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    Situational awareness and avoidance go hand in hand. If I see something that I'm not comfortable with I look for an exit route. I carry to protect myself and my family, I'm not a vigilante or LE so I avoid trouble.
     
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  25. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    A long time ago, I was a younger less mature man. My lack of maturity led me at times to questionable decisions which were typically a result of consuming more alcohol than was good for me.

    Two things I'm extremely glad I decided to wait for...having a child and carrying a handgun. I question whether I'd have done either responsibly way back when, but I'm glad I'll never know.

    I may still not be the most even keeled guy, but I understand the gravity of carrying. Part of that is letting minor slights and trespasses against go.
     
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