Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

please critique first 9mm round

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by -Gadsden-, Jun 8, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. -Gadsden-

    -Gadsden- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Hello,

    any advice or critique is appreciated.

    -124 grain lead ZCast bullet
    - 4 grains Unique powder
    - 1.063-1.065 OAL (Lyman recommendation is 1.065)

    I've taken a shot of the primer seating depth. From using the ruler gauge on my caliper, I found the depth to be about .006 deeper than the case head.

    Also included are a picture of the round's headspacing. Based on this diagram: http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3109/45seatingpossibilitiesx.jpg

    the headspacing appears to be adequate.

    The bullet shaved a little. Next time I will expand the case mouth a bit more. Is there anything detrimental about small shavings, just out of curiosity?

    I ran the round through my Sig SP2022 -- the gun I'm building these reloads for. Cycled fine and there was no bullet setback.

    thanks for your time! Please let me know if I need to include better pictures or provide more info
     

    Attached Files:

    • 003.jpg
      003.jpg
      File size:
      73.3 KB
      Views:
      173
    • 006.jpg
      006.jpg
      File size:
      71.3 KB
      Views:
      169
    • 009.jpg
      009.jpg
      File size:
      63 KB
      Views:
      164
    • 008.jpg
      008.jpg
      File size:
      68.8 KB
      Views:
      188
  2. Mike 27

    Mike 27 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    Alaska, Fort Wainwright
    Looks fine. Your primer looks good. Just make sure it is slightly below flush, I have never actually measured them though. You can try to play with the belling but a little bit of shaving is not going to hurt anything. Are you seating and crimping at the same time? That can give you a little shaving.
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Sounds fine for a starting load.

    But I doubt 4.0 Unique is going to cycle very many guns.

    And it certainly won't burn clean at the low pressure.

    I think you will end up at 4.5 or more before you get a 100% cycling load out of it.

    rc
     
  4. -Gadsden-

    -Gadsden- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    thanks for the quick replies. Just for more info, I am using a Lee Single Stage.

    Mike,

    I am seating and crimping as two different stages. The shaving occurs when I seat it. Crimping took a little while to adjust till I got the edges smoothed out.

    rc,

    would you recommend I load up a progressive batch? maybe 5 rounds with 4.0, 5 rounds with 4.1, 5 with 4.2, 5 with 4.3, 5 with 4.4 and a final 5 with 4.5, as opposed to dedicating one session to each different load? I ask this because it might save me a bit of money since a lane at the range is $14. But if it's best to work up slowly, that's what I'll do.
     
  5. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    22,677
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    I think you're saying you made only 1 round and fired it. If that is a fact how is it possible for you to know there was no bullet setback when you had no other rounds in magazine to check for setback?

    Everything else looks good from the pictures you posted. I agree with RC, way too light a charge weight. where did you get that load data? Lyman 4th Edition Cast Manual lists a starting charge of Unique with a 124gr lead bullet @4.4gr so your charge weight is very low. Where did you get that data???
     
  6. -Gadsden-

    -Gadsden- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    hi - sorry if that was unclear. I have not fired a round. By "cycling" I mean I ran the round through the mag and racked it into the chamber and out. Measured the same after several times. You're right, I don't have any indication on how this one will react under recoil, so maybe I should have left that part out.

    I'm referencing Lyman's 49th manual -- I don't have the Cast Manual. The 49th's load data for a 120 grain "#2 alloy" RN bullet is 4.0 grains, max is 5.0. Is this data not appropriate for what I'm using?
     
  7. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    22,677
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    You can try that load but like mentioned above, that light a load might not cycle your slide and Unique will for sure be very dirty at those low pressures.

    I would suggest making up 10 or so @ increasing charge weights and trying them at the range.
     
  8. cja245

    cja245 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    65
    You wont really know until you shoot them, but it sounds like they will fire just fine.

    4.0 grains of unique is the bare minimum I've had reliable function with my 9's. You probably could safely just jump to 4.5 and see if you want it hotter than that. I've always used the Lyman 120 gn data, but I start in the middle of the range because I know from experience that 4.0 of Unique is just too low.

    Most of the problems I've had with leading in pistols were user error, by making the bullets undersized during the loading process. With lead bullets you have to be careful with shaving lead and how much of a crimp you put on it. You really should not crimp, but only remove the bell. Also if you are not belling the cases enough, the case tension can actually swage the bullet smaller. You can pull a loaded round and measure the bullet diameter to see if its smaller than before loading.

    If your load works without leading than stick with what you are doing, but those are just some tips in case you need them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Personally?

    I would have started there in the first place.

    But that's based on 50 years reloading experience, not todays published data.

    And I would never recommend you do that!

    rc
     
  10. rondog

    rondog Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,824
    Location:
    Commurado
    How's the overall length? Hard to tell with no side-on shot, but that bullet looks seated just a tad deep to me.

    Oh, and welcome to the reloading addiction! Have another hit on the pipe.....
     
  11. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    5,943
    Most commercial casters make 'em fairly hard. Might be ok. But with softer bullets, the case can swage down the bullet while you seat. Esp with 9mm, cuz some of the cases are really thick, and some of the expander plugs are really short. If you already make "coke bottles" with jacketed bullets, just think what's happening to your poor cast bullets. If you end up with any accuracy issues, I'd pull one of those bullets and measure the diameter of the base.

    I've swapped a bigger 38SW expander plug into my Lee 9mm expander die to get it to work with softer cast bullets.

    I'm at 4.7 UN for my 124gr cast SWC, personally.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  12. rondog

    rondog Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,824
    Location:
    Commurado
    Glad to see you have ZCast bullets, BTW! I've bought a lot of bullets from James, I'm glad he's doing good and making it. Gotta support the small businessman!
     
  13. -Gadsden-

    -Gadsden- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    excellent info guys. I will load some up today and shoot them at some point this week
     
  14. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    5,239
    Location:
    Florida
    You took great pictures:) You did the plunk test which is good, that is what determines your OAL. So if it drops in and out you are good to go.

    When making test or dummy rounds, don't load them with primer or powder. Then you can safely test for fit in your barrel and magazine. Manually cycling the round does not really duplicate firing, but is OK to do with an inert round just to see if it fits and cycles.

    If you are going to shoot cast bullets try and get the Lyman Cast Manual. it is the best.

    Flaring the case, the bullet should just barely start, to much and you weaken the case, not enough and it shaves.

    Sigs have strong springs and will not "run" well on real light loads so I also agree on moving on up to 4.5grs Unique to start.

    How are you measuring your powder, weighing it, powder measure? Unique can vary in some powder measures

    You are on your way and good to see that you have great pictures and asked before loading a bunch!:)
     
  15. au_prospector

    au_prospector Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    North Georgia
    You can work up loads like that in increments of .2 grains I think. 4.0, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6, etc. Up to you, I believe it will be nearly impossible to notice the difference at .1 grain. Might find your load a bit quicker that way.
     
  16. -Gadsden-

    -Gadsden- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    hi Rule3 -- I'm using the Lee Powder Measure that I mounted to the 2x4 I have mounted to a coffee table in our living room :p Not the best set up but it's working so far!

    I ran a full hopper through the measure per Lee recommendations and it meters out a pretty consistent charge. Within half a tenth of a grain. I'm using the Lee scale to verify the charge.
     
  17. FM12

    FM12 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    460
    Try ~ 4.5. to 5.0 Bullseye. Always worked for me in any 9MM load, except the 147 gr.
     
  18. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    5,239
    Location:
    Florida
    You are doing it all the right way!

    I started on the kitchen table.:)

    The Lee PPM actually is a very accurate measure with most powders. It is kind of iffy on the flakes. I was having problems with some stick rifle powder in my RCBS and then tried my old LPPM and it worked better! I guess I am just not a Unique fan. I use it for 45 Colt is about all. I prefer HP38/W231 (meters better) for 9mm and 40 I like Power Pistol. But Unique works for everything:)
     
  19. -Gadsden-

    -Gadsden- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    loaded up 10 today after I got the powder measure figured out.

    They are all coming in at about 4.25 grains at 1.065-1.070" OAL. I figured starting around 4.2 would be fine, per everyone's advice.

    A few question about OAL - at what point is the OAL too short? I seated and crimped one that came to 1.060. I decided to move that one aside so I didn't count it with the rest of the group. Would something .005 shorter lead to an unsafe spike in pressure? The shorter round head spaced fine though.

    Probably not a problem with small powder charges, but I figured I'd ask.

    thanks!
     
  20. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Gosh, I sure hope not!

    Measure a box of factory loaded ammo sometime!

    .005" will seem like ultra-high precision!

    rc
     
  21. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    5,239
    Location:
    Florida
    It was more like 4.5 to 5.0;)

    I would not load anymore until you see that those cycle the gun or you are going to be shooting a single shot;) But if so, do not feel bad I did it once with 50 rounds,:eek:
     
  22. -Gadsden-

    -Gadsden- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    my mother always said I was very cautious! :p

    I'll make some 4.5s tomorrow
     
  23. oldreloader

    oldreloader Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    806
    Location:
    Magnolia AR
  24. Springfield0612

    Springfield0612 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Kingston, Wa
    Crimping cases when using lead bullets is not really required. If you are using the Lee bullet seat/crimp die to remove the bell and add neck tension to the bullet you really don't need to add any extra crimp or roll crimp. Doing so you can cause the neck to bite into the lead a little too much and cause the bullet to not obturate and seal in the barrel correctly. I load cast lead exclusively and sold all of my Lee crimp dies, once the round comes out of the bullet seat/crimp die, I check the neck tension and ensure no bullet set back occurs and good to go.

    Just trying to save you a step on your single stage. I loaded on one (Lee single stage) for my first 5 years of reloading.
     
  25. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    22,677
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    I can not agree. Ammo meant for a semi-auto needs a taper crimp so the bullets don't set-back and revolver ammo needs a roll crimp so the bullets don't pull. Sure neck tension is the most important and you can get away with not crimping with rifle ammo but not handgun ammo unless it's shot from a single shot gun.

    Of course you should never over-crimp but a correctly applied crimp is needed with handgun ammo.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page