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Please help! Good guy arrested in Ohio

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Ian, Jan 2, 2004.

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  1. Ian

    Ian Member

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    From http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/news/stories/20040101/localnews/147169.html
    Mr Jordan is a genuine good guy, dedicated freedom activist, and good friend of mine. He was traveling from his home to celebrate the holidays with family when he was stopped in Ohio. If anyone there can help out raising publicity in support of him, please do. Hopefully if a bright enough light is shone on his case, it'll help him out.

    Ongoing discussion can be found at the Claire Files.

    Thank you!

    Edit: Let me add a couple things I missed in a rush to post this. Some accounts mention a "homemade remote, possibly a detonator of some type." It's the friggin' remote to his car alarm. :fire:

    He is, FWIW, a longtime member and contributor to the NRA, GOA, Pink Pistols, JPFO, and KABA. He's one of us, and I hope we can help him out now when he needs it.
     
  2. Maimaktes

    Maimaktes member

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    Ain't tellin'.
    Ian, word has it that a legal defense fund is in the process of being set up for him, and that some fairly high-level legal talent is being contacted. Mr. Jordan (known to me and many on the Internet only as "Hunter") *is* a genuine good guy and a true American, and I'm sure pulling for him, and I hope I will get a chance to do something to help him. I wish I was a millionaire, or a lawyer, or better yet a millionaire lawyer, so I could do something for him. He's just too valuable to lose. God help him.

    What I can't work out is what he was doing trying to cross freedom-unfriendly Ohio, which for someone like him or me would be a lot like a Hobbit trying to cross Mordor safely. I stay the hell out of places like Mordor, I mean, Ohio. The same goes for Illinazi. I wouldn't be caught dead, armed, or unarmed in either of those two police state hell-holes unless it was literally a desperate matter of life and death or some kind of world-saving quest or something.

    Maimaktes
     
  3. Ian

    Ian Member

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    I just received this:

     
  4. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    OK, THR

    I just deleted my original reply, which was a scathing invitation to all those who would say he deserved it for not stopping @ the border and putting his arms in the trunk to have their say and get it over with.

    Instead, I'm doing something constructive, I'm inviting THR folks to step up to the plate.

    I don't know Hunter, and I don't know personally whether he's a good egg or not. The buzz and chatter on the net seems to indicate that this is the case, so I'll take a risk, and give him the benefit of the doubt.

    There's a lot of honest good guys I don't know personally, and Hunter just might be one of them, and if that's the case, we need to band together to cover our own.

    So, I'm in for a contribution. Who do I hit with paypal?
     
  5. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    I sent this to my activist e-mail lists such as anti-antigunlobby@yahoogroups.com .

    I hope it helps.

    BTW, I know Marc Victor. If you want a rabid, pro-gun, but more importantly, pro-liberty attorney on your side, he's your guy. Trust me on that.

    Rick
     
  6. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Now of course if he was a "thugling" from the inner city we'd all be complimenting the police, neh?

    Be that as it may, I dont know the whole story. If, however, he is convicted of violating Ohios gunlaws regarding concealed weapons, and he fails to convince a Court of his constituional right to carry same, I hope they impose they appropriate penalty under law.

    WildandneverspeedwithillegalweaponsinacarAlaska
     
  7. Dorian

    Dorian Member

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    Unfourtanetly, I am the only "active" pro-gun person I know. And I'm flat broke.

    It's times like this when I wish I was a multi-millionaire, so I could contribute to this man's defense.

    There are so many feelings inside me right now from reading this. Anger, disgust, and a general feeling of hopelesness.

    I've heard people say this before and never really understood it before, but I fully understand it now: What is this country coming too?

    An American arrested and facing jail time for defending himself by the very people who CAN'T defend him 24/7.

    :(

    I will keep Hunter in my thoughts. And I wish the best of luck to him.
     
  8. glocksman

    glocksman Member

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    He didn't deserve it, but it was a risky action to take given Ohio's gun laws.

    The smart thing to do would have been to wear it openly like the demonstrators did in the Ohio CCW rallies, and as soon as you crossed the border into Pennsylvania, conceal it back up.

    Assuming that the 'assault-type rifle' was unloaded, there shouldn't be any charges resulting from it as it was in a locked container and the Federal FOPA permits one to transport unloaded, not readily accessible firearms regardless of any state laws.
     
  9. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    Another one bites the dust.

    Honestly though, you could get arrested for that at a traffic stop in most states, not just states that are known as "TPRO".

    I wish him the best of luck in fighting off this police state garbage.
     
  10. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    I'm afraid I have to side with the unpopular view on this. I loathe anti-CCW laws, politicians and others as much as anyone on this forum: but a state has the right to make its own laws (which are, after all, made by politicians elected by the people of that state). If this gentleman (no matter how pro-RKBA and staunch 2A supporter he may be) willingly and wilfuly chose to violate those laws, he has to take the consequences. I carry concealed whenever and wherever possible: but when I travel through states that forbid this, I obey their laws. If I don't, not only am I subject to arrest and prosecution (thus voiding my right to own arms for the rest of my life), but I'm also portraying firearms activists as scofflaws who can't be trusted to coexist with the rest of society in that state.
     
  11. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Member

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    What Preacher said. Folks, I don't think it helps the cause of RKBA a bit to violate ANY laws willfully. I could have much greater sympathy for someone's inadvertently stepping over a line they weren't aware of. But by the very fact of Hunter's reputation as an activist and RKBA supporter, one logically assumes he knew of Ohio's laws and reputation. Still, a sad day.:mad:

    TC
    TFL Survivor
     
  12. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

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    I'm afraid I also agree with the disentors. If we agree to have a society and we agree to the rule of law then there are ways to change bad laws.

    Completely ignoring the law can often result in being arrested and is not the best way.

    Don't know the man, hope he wins his case but I'm not sure this kind of case helps the cause.
     
  13. Blackcloud6

    Blackcloud6 Member

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    He should have known the laws of the state of Ohio and obeyed them. Ohio is on the verge of getting a CCW law passed and thus incident doesn't help.

    Nothing wrong with fighting for what is right, but there are smart ways and dumb ways.
     
  14. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Ohio always makes me shudder, especially their state po-po.

    Best of luck to him. Hope everything turns out well.
     
  15. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh, I don't know. Those of you who live in free states may have forgotten what it was like before your CCW laws passed (remember, when you talk about "Mordor," that most U.S. states would have qualified as "Mordor" by your standards as late as the 1980s and 1990s.)

    It's pretty common to ignore this kind of law. I guarantee those Ohio troopers knew that a whole lot of the cars they passed that day contained loaded weapons--and most of those were no threat to anybody. When you've been told by a state trooper in a rabidly anti-gun state that "I wouldn't let my father drive anywhere on Illinois highways without a loaded pistol," you find it hard to come down too hard on people who ignore such a law. A lot of police officers are doing it, folks, and they know a lot of "us" are doing it too. A lot of them would have warned Mr. Hunter to slow down and watch out for the next cop, and let it go at that. In fact, in some police circles it's common to use the "holster test"--since this gentleman had his gun in a holster and his extra ammo on a carrier, there'd be little chance that he was up to no good.

    All that said, I comply with Illinois law, which is far more draconian than Ohio. In a vehicle, there's not much difference between a loaded and unloaded handgun as you should be using your locked doors and your car, not your gun. Only time to load and conceal a gun is if you were getting out for some reason, really. At 70mph on the highway you will have no use for a loaded handgun until it's time to stop anyway. And when he could have given himself grounds for a good defense by carrying openly, but he chose to conceal the guns anyway, that doesn't show very good judgment in my opinon.

    No matter what, though, the bottom line for us on this forum has to be whether the man deserves to go to prison for the awful crime of transporting two loaded weapons. I submit that he does not. Thus his legal defense is important. We can talk about his judgment at greater length when he is not facing prison time--or after his conviction, which I have to say I don't think any contributions are going to prevent. I'll send what I can, though, because the fight is still important.

    For those who talked about being "willing to accept the consequences" when you break a law, that's absolutely right. However, we may be missing the fact that Hunter did just that. He didn't fight the police; he didn't draw a weapon, nor did he try to escape. He accepted their authority to arrest him and is now pledged to fight in the courts. THAT is what is meant by "accepting the consequences." Accepting the consequences of his actions does NOT mean that he has to stand up at trial and say "I'm guilty, the state is right, I'm wrong, please sentence me to whatever you think is appropriate."

    So give what you can, talk up jury nullification if you're in Ohio, but don't expect a miracle. I don't. :(
     
  16. cordex

    cordex Member

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    "I don't care if the law is wrong, Rosa. If we are going to have a society with rule of law, you've got to do as that law says, so get in the back of the bus, okay? The states have a right to pass whatever laws they wish, and you've got to know and follow those laws. Look, you'll get to your destination whether you sit up here or sit in the back, right? Just be a good little girl and get back there."

    I recently drove through Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York and back to transport a semi-domesticated wild animal to a local rescue center for such critters. Had "Wile E." somehow gotten out of his carrier while we were driving, I would not have been defenseless. I obeyed all the traffic laws and didn't get pulled over.
     
  17. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Would you agree with that statement if I changed a single word? LIke (throws on his best Martin Luther King voice): "Folks, I don't think it helps the cause of civil rights a bit to violate ANY laws willfully."

    Didn't think so. We have a tradition of civil disobedience in this country. It's a good tradition.

    Would you make the same statement if Ohio produced a law that said "it is unlawful for anyone to criticize elected officials?"

    Or how about "citizens must open their doors at the request of any government employee, for any reason."

    Those ok with you as well? After all, it's a state that's infringing, rather than the feds.

    That's sad. I thought the whole concept of "rule of law" was "we'll write this law, call it a constitution, and use this law to bind the federal government so it never oppresses us." Too bad that the feds aren't bound by the same set of laws they use to bind us, hunh?
     
  18. suijurisfreeman

    suijurisfreeman Member

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    Could someone please point out where in Ohio's Constitution/Bill of Rights where the Legislature is granted the lawful authority to regulate the bearing of arms while exercising the right of self-defense? I personally believe that the Bill of Rights/Constitution is the foundation for the concept of "the rule of law".
    Kentucky's Bill of Rights, Section 26 makes it crystal clear, "To guard against transgression of the high powers which we have delegated, We Declare that every thing in this Bill of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate; and all laws contrary thereto, or contrary to this Constitution, shall be void."
    How can there be "the rule of law" if public servants ignore the foundation that establishes that "rule of law"?
     
  19. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    suijuris, it's called the "inherent police power" of the state. Nice to know that it trumps our rights, huh?:uhoh:

    Sometimes I wonder why we left a tyrant across the sea to establish a tyranny across the states.:D
     
  20. Alan Fud

    Alan Fud Member

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    May I ask, what harm was done to ANY by Mr. Jordan's action of carrying a loaded firearm? If no harm was done to anyone and no one suffered any lose, why is Mr. Jordan being charged with a crime? This is what I don't understand about gun laws.
     
  21. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    Long ago I would have been shocked to read posts by "gun owners" who have essentially told this guy to fry. No more. Now I expect a large percentage of you to do just that.

    What this guy did is something I do in Arizona every day. Next you'll be cheering for the cop who arrested Rosa Parks (and the jury who later convicted her).

    Ohio has an "affirmative defense" to carrying concealed. It's subjective, and as unconstitutional as all get out, but that is one of his legal avenues he can pursue, and I will assist him in that.

    You can choose to send him $5 or $10 for his defense or you can hang your head in shame. I'm in for $20 to pick up the slack for the rest of you worthless wimps.

    Rick
     
  22. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Member

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    OK, here we go. Let me stipulate that I believe ALL anti-self defense laws to be immoral, short-sighted and symptomatic of legislators run amok.

    But all over the country good folks are working slowly, steadily and diligently to change the laws in accepted ways. They (we) are meeting with success more often than not. Ohio is an exemplar, being on the verge of enacting their version of shall-issue CCW. It's not helpful at this point to assist the antis in portraying us "gun nuts" as ignorant or contemptuous of the law.

    My response was a practical one, not theoretical.

    TC
    TFL Survivor
     
  23. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    Edited by moderator.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2004
  24. suijurisfreeman

    suijurisfreeman Member

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    El Tejon,
    I see that you're located in Lafayette, Indiana, I was born at the Home Hospital in Lafayette in 1948. I was supposed to attend Purdue University in the fall of 1966, but never made it, the rest is the story of my life.

    "inherent police power of the state." I can't seem to find that in Kentucky's Bill of Rights! In fact what I see is, Section 1: "All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain and inalienable right, among which are ... First: The right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties. Fifth: The right of acquiring and protecting property. Seventh: Theright to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State .... Section: Absolute and arbitrary power over the lives, liberty and property of FREEMEN exists nowhere in a republic, not even in the largest majority. And of course Section 26: "To guard against transgression of the high powers which we have delegated, We Declare that every thing in this Bill of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate; and all laws contrary thereto, or contrary to this Constitution, shall be void."

    If there in fact exists a "social compact/contract between the people and their agents (government), what is the basis of that contract? Upon what foundation does that contract rest? Does the phrase, "deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" have any meaning whatsoever in this country today? How can George W. Bush claim that this country operates under the "rule of law", when it is quite apparent that the people's public servants ignore the very foundation of the concept of "the rule of law". If a "compact/contract" does in fact exist, then the Bill of Rights/Constitution sets the boundaries over which government cannot lawfully trespass. Government only gets away with this crap because the people allow it! It's way past time to remind public servants who's really in charge!
     
  25. Erik

    Erik Member

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    Going about your daily activities violating laws is a poor choice in setting the platform for a successful civil disobedience case.

    Why the cuff key?

    Not too bright an activist given he was trying to make a point.

    I doubt he was, for what it is worth. As such, he will lose what ever public sentiment might have shielded him or pressed for a favorable outcome in court.

    It will most likely end up looking damaging to the cause, all in all.
     
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