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Please help ID this S&W Revolver

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by steven58, Sep 11, 2011.

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  1. steven58

    steven58 Member

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    Hi All,

    A friend of mine just inherited this revolver that was once his grandfathers.

    It looks like an older S&W. The grips are crap plastic put on in the 60s. As he wants to pun nicer grips on we need to know the exact model.

    The model designation is not in the usual place (for me) under the crane.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

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    Caliber would help identify the model. Anyway, any grips for a square butt K frame Smith should fit.
     
  3. oldfool

    oldfool Member

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    caliber ???
    pretty much looks like a pretty typical post war (WWII) model 10 k-frame to me, 38 special, magna grip style
    others here far far better than I, at that sort of info, be patient
     
  4. MIL-DOT

    MIL-DOT member

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    Looks to me like a S&W Military & Police model of 1905. They're basically K-frame model 10's. There's a sticky at the top of the page where you can have the gun dated based on the serial number.( this is it... )
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=372213&page=140
    I have a file stashed somewhere that you can use to date S&W's yourself ( probably got it here), you can print it and use it as a personal reference, forever (very handy at gunshows). Lemme see if I can fish it up......



    edit: not sure of this helps,or not ( hopefully OldFuff will be along shortly !! )


    Please note that this list is a general guide and not meant to be exact. There is some dispute regarding the dates on some serial numbers and your gun may actually be a year off from what is listed. The precise shipping date as "lettered" can be several years off depending on model. For the exact date on your gun request the letter from S&W Historian Roy Jinks.

    Pre-War N frame.

    Year/Beginning Serial

    1908….. 1-------------1926….. 25000
    1909….. 2050----------1927….. 28500
    1910….. 5000----------1928….. 29500
    1911….. 7050----------1929….. 30000
    1912….. 9100----------1930….. 34000
    1913….. 11150---------1931….. 36000
    1914….. 13200---------1932….. 38375
    1915….. 15250---------1933….. 41200
    1916….. 15500---------1934….. 43350
    1917….. 16000---------1935….. 45500
    1918-1919 None--------1936….. 47200
    1920….. 16200---------1937….. 48700
    1921….. 16300---------1938….. 52000
    1922….. 18400---------1939….. 57200
    1923….. 19600---------1940….. 59000
    1924….. 20800---------1941….. 62350
    1925….. 22000---------1942-1945 None

    Post-War S Series N frames:

    S62,489 – S67,999……..1946 - Early 1947
    S68,000 – S71,999……….Late 1947 – Early 1948
    S72,000 – S72,499……….Late 1948 - Early 1949
    S72,500 – S74,999……….Late 1949 – Early 1950
    S75,000 – S80,499……….Late 1950 – Early 1951
    S80,500 – S85,999……….Late 1952 – Early 1952
    S86,000 – S94,999…….…Late 1952 – Early 1953
    S95,000 – S102,999…….Late 1953 – Early 1954
    S103,000 – S139,999……Late 1954 – Early 1955*
    S140,000 – S149,999….Late 1955 – Early 1956
    S150,000 – S175,999……Late 1956 – Early 1957
    S176,000 – S181,999……Late 1957 – Early 1958
    S182,000 – S194,499……Late 1958 – Early 1959
    S194,500 – S206.999……Late 1959 – Early 1960
    S207,000 – S219,999……Late 1960 – Early 1961
    S220,000 – S227,999……Late 1961 – Early 1962
    S228,000 – S231,999……Late 1962 – Early 1963
    S232,000 – S235.999……Late 1963 – Early 1964
    S236,000 – S257,999……Late 1964 – Early 1965
    S258,000 – S261,999……Late 1965 – Early 1966
    S262,000 – S289,999……Late 1966 – Early 1967
    S290,000 – S304,999……Late 1967 – Early 1968
    S305,000 – S329,999……Late 1968 – Early 1969
    S330,000 – S333,454……Late 1969 – Early 1970

    *Note that a number of N frames with serials in the S138000-S140000 range (and the range may be wider either way) are seen that were shipped much later than the serial would suggest should be the case. In one known example a gun with serial S136431 was not shipped until June of 1958. It's possible that a large block of serial numbers that appear to be from 1954-55 were not actually used until 1957-58. It at least one case a gun has a 5-screw serial and was built as a 4-screw gun.


    N Series N Frames:

    N1 – N60,000………….......1970-72
    N60,001 – N 190,000…...1972-74
    N190,001 – N430,000…...1975 – 77
    N430.001 – N 550,000…..1978
    N550,001 – N580,000….. 1979
    N580,001 – N790,000…...1980
    N790,001 – N932,999...…1980-83

    Post-War S Series K Frames:

    S811,120 – S999,999…….1946 – 48

    C Series K Frames: (Fixed Sight Models)

    C1 - C233,999………….....1948 – 52
    C236,004 – C261,483…….1953
    C277,555 – C314,031….…1954 – 56
    C402,924 – C405,018…….1957
    C405,019 – C429,740…..1958 – 59
    C429,741 – C474,148…….1960
    C474,149 – C622,699…….1961 – 62
    C622,700 – C810,532…….1963 – 65
    C810,533 – C999,999…..1966 – 67

    D Series K Frames: (Fixed Sight Models)

    D1 – D90,000…………….....1968
    D90,001 – D330,000……..1969 -70
    D330,001 – D420,000………1971 – Early 72
    D420,001 – D510,000………Late 1972 – Early 73
    D510,001 – D659,901………Late 1973 – Early 1974
    D659.902 – D75000………..Late 1974 – Early 1975
    D750,001 – D870,000………Late 1975 – Early 1976
    D870,001 – D999,999………Late 1976 – Early 1977
    2D00001 - 2D80,000……….1977
    2D80,001 – 2D99,999………1978
    4D00001 – 6D10,000……….1979
    6D10,0001 – 7D10,000……1980
    7D10,001 – 9D44,500…..1981
    9D44,501 – 17D8,900………1982
    17D8,901 – 21D0883……….1983

    K Series K Frames (Adjustable Sight Models)

    K101 – K614……………......1946
    K615 – K18,731…………....1947
    K18,732 – K73,121……..…1948
    K73,122 – K84,149……..…1949
    K84,150 – K104,047…...1950
    K104,048 – K136,690...1951
    K136,691 – K175,637...1952
    K175,638 – K210,095...1953
    K210,096 – K231,255...1954
    K231,256 – K266,154...1955
    K266,155 – K288,988...1956
    K288,989 – K317,822...1957
    K317,823 – K350,547...1958
    K350,548 – K386,804...1959
    K386,805 – K429,894...1960
    K429,895 – K468,098...1961
    K468,099 – K515,478...1962
    K515,479 – K553,999....1963
    K555,000 – K605.877....1964
    K605,878 – K658.986....1965
    K658,987 – K715,996....1966
    K715,997 – K779.162....1967
    K779,163 – K848,781....1968
    K848,782 – K946,391....1969
    K946,382 – K999,999....1970
    1K1 – 1K39,500.........1970
    2K1 – 2K22.037.........1970
    1K39,501 – 1K999,999...1971
    2K22,038 – 2K55,996....1971
    3K1 – 3K73,962.........1971
    2K55,997 – 2K99,999....1972
    3K31,280 – 5K6,616.....1972
    4K1 – 4K1,627..........1972
    4K1,628 – 4K54,104.....1973
    5K6,617 – 5K73,962.....1973
    4K54,105 – 4K99,999....1974
    5K73,963 – 6K58,917....1974
    7K1 – 7K26,043.........1974
    7K26,044 – 7K70,577....1975
    6K98,918 – 8K20,763....1975
    8K20,764 – 9K1.........1975
    8K20,000 – 9K100,000...1975
    9K1,001 – 9K99,999.....1976
    10K001 – 24K9,999......1977
    25K001 – 56K9,999......1978 – 79
    57K001 – 91K6,800......1980
    91K6,801 – 124K000.....1981
    125K000 – 269K9,999....1982
    270K000 – 311K273......1983

    1980 Three-Letter Prefix Series Begins at AAA000
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  5. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Well most everybody is right. It's a pre-war Smith & Wesson 1905 Hand Ejector. I can't make out the first number in the serial number, but it's fairly late production from the middle 1930's to 1942 at the latest. It's most likely chambered in .38 Special, but the serial number is apparently high enough so that it could be .38 S&W. It will likely say on the left side of the barrel.

    Getting new stocks is easy. Look for those listed to fit a Square Butt/Model 10 or M&P Smith & Wesson revolver.

    P.S. Model numbers were not used or stamped on the frame until 1957, which is the reason you didn't find anything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  6. Radagast
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    Radagast Moderator

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    Serial number appears to be 650102, guns in the 6505xx range shipped in 1935, so that gives a rough idea, bearing in mind that S&W were stock piling frames during the Great Depression and shipped guns in the 680000 range in 1940, so it may have sat around for a while.
    Keep in mind that this gun lacks the modern internal hammer block safety. If dropped there is the chance it could fire, so leave the chamber under the hammer empty.

    Guns exported to Great Britain during WWII were chambered in .38 S&W, many of these were re-imported after the war and converted to .38 Special by boring out the chambers. Yours is probably too early to be a British gun.
     
  7. winfried

    winfried Member

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    Model 10 M&P revolver.

    Firstly, one cannot bore out a 38 S&W to a 38 SW, this would result in a step in the chambers as the shell of the 38 S&W is of larger diameter than the 38 Spec.

    The Revolver looks like one of the old long pull DA revolvers. The rounded front sight also indicates this. For fast and accurate DA shooting these old actions are better than new types, but few people remember this.

    Put proper grips on, and it will last forever. Even if this revolver has no hammer block, it can only fire when dropped when either the guide pin of the rebound slide or the pivot pin of the Hammer shears off. Since it is fast on the left in the frame and in an good fitting recess in the side plate, these parts cannot just break, they must shear off.

    Regards
     
  8. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    One certainly can. As Radagast says, it was done to a lot of British surplus .38-200s to make them more salable in the Colonies. It is not desirable and I certainly would not do it to a gun that had survived this long without being reamed, but it was routinely done pre GCA 1968 when mailorder surplus was cheap.
     
  9. steven58

    steven58 Member

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    Thanks for all of the helpful responses.

    Yes it's a .38 special.

    We tried to put a set of k frame grips on this gun and it was just a bit off all around. Hence my original query. The grips on the gun are of cheap plastic and very ill fitting.
     
  10. doc2rn

    doc2rn Member

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    Make sure you get square butt grips and not round butt grips, like old fuff said its an old M&P .38 spec. Model 10.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Back when your revolver was made, Smith & Wesson hand fitted a pair of stocks to each frame before both the frame and stocks were finished (blued or whatever). The stocks were serial numbered to the particular frame and then lacquered. When the frame was assembled into a complete revolver the individually fitted stocks were united with it. The result was a perfect fit.

    Of course this sort of quality is long gone, but it explains why replacement stocks are not always an ideal fit. Consider something that covers the backstrap, frontstrap, and butt. You will not be able to see the serial number on the butt, but it should also be stamped on the back of the cylinder, and the bottom of the barrel, toward the back, above the extractor rod.
     
  12. Radagast
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    Radagast Moderator

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    winfried:
    You are correct that the chambers would have a step. But it was still done. Such guns are prone to bulged or split cases as a result.
     
  13. steven58

    steven58 Member

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    Thanks Old Fuff,

    I concur: they don't make em like they used to!

    We tried a set of grips from one of my K frames to see if it would be a drop in fit. It was close enough that if those grips (Ahrend's square butt finger-groove) did not have to go back on my gun we could have made it fit perfectly with a bit of judicious sanding here and there. My friend will probably just fit a set of his own depending which ones he picks.

    We just wanted to be sure that, before ordering a set of square butt model 10 grips, there wasn't a more specific set we should get. Now that we know what to order, fitting will be simple enough.

    If it were up to me I'd put on a set of slim elk scales and a Tyler T grip.
     
  14. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Old Fuff,

    How can you say that?!?!?!

    The new guns have MIM parts which are far superior to ones made the old blacksmith way. The barrels are crush fit so they can't crossthread. The 3 piece barrels are better than ever. And think of the safety that we now have because of the IL. All this and unmatched quality control.

    These are the good old days.
     
  15. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Unquestionably...

    I just read Smith & Wesson's latest financial report, and business is booming.

    Does you think I should sell my old junk and use the money to buy stock? :uhoh:
     
  16. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    absolutely

    being the nice guy I am I will buy it from you before it blows up
     
  17. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    You have a good point, but since they are so old, and were made before the company started using modern manufacturing materials and methods, I hesitate to sell them 'cuz I wouldn't want anybody to get hurt when they blow.

    And ya' know, it's hard to find black powder ammunition for my 3 1/2 inch, engraved registered .357 Magnum...:eek:

    Thanks for the generous offer though. :D
     
  18. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    but you don't like me
     
  19. Radagast
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    Radagast Moderator

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    3.5 inch, engraved, Registered Magnum? I'm sure you don't like me even more than you don't like Gulllermo!
     
  20. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

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    Probably wasn't factory, so it is just somebodies nail scratching.
    ruins the resale value.
     
  21. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    It's a good thing there are people like y'all who are willing to do your part to keep those dangerous old guns out of the unsuspecting publics hands.

    Just leave a few around for me. ;)
     
  22. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Well Old Fuff is a good guy, a real boon to the gun community.

    I am willing to do my part to keep him alive and with digits intact.

    He just says the word and I am going to trade him a brand new Smith 686, the best gun ever made, for his gun collection.

    Yes...I know...I am a great guy
     
  23. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Well I do the best that I can.

    My problem with Guillermo is that I've repeatedly offered to convert his small collection of Colt Diamondback's into Fitz Specials, using my unique methods and a bench grinder... :what:

    But he won't go along with the project.

    So considering my prefered modifications I'm not sure he would want to buy my collection... :uhoh:

    Now you take that old S&W .357 (registered) Magnum. I'll admit that the grinder was a bit rough on it, but it's O.K. 'cuz I was able to touch it up with cold blue... :evil:
     
  24. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Fuff...

    This is not about ME...it is about you and your well being.

    We have to get those old, unsafe guns out of your valuable hands.

    Pack everything up and I will bring you a shiny new 686. Then all w b well with the world.
     
  25. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Well considering my prefered modifications, I think my old guns are still safe...

    So long as I stick to black powder... :cool:
     
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