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Please help me sort this out about DIAS…

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by 2@low8, Jul 24, 2013.

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  1. 2@low8

    2@low8 Member

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    I know that a DIAS is, in and of itself, a machinegun and must have been registered as such.

    If you have a registered DIAS and you want to put it in an AR-15, you must first exchange the following parts with M-16 bolt carrier, trigger, hammer, selector and disconnector… THEN you add the DIAS to make it a functioning machinegun. Right so far?

    When you take the DIAS out of the AR-15 do you have to remove the M-16 parts (I’ve seen it mentioned that the bolt carrier is exempted) to keep the AR-15 legal since it wasn‘t registered as a machinegun?
     
  2. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    I don't believe you need to remove the M16 trigger parts when you take out the DIAS to stay legal, but from what I understand it is frowned upon to have multiple ARs set up with FA trigger groups while only having one DIAS. Personally I'd just leave the DIAS in one lower and swap uppers instead of moving the DIAS to another gun.
     
  3. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    The M-16 fire control parts set even with no DIAS installed in an AR-15 is a machine gun. It can be made to follow-fire by the BATFE in the lab, and if it does this once, you are screwed. The bolt carrier makes no difference in this case, as even with an AR-15 BCG it will still follow-fire when the selector is in auto and the trigger is pulled and bolt cycles. The hammer follows the bolt down and with high seated or soft primers it'll go BANG a second time. That's not legal.

    It only takes a few minutes to swap out the fire control parts... don't have more than one lower set up to accept the sear at any one time.


    Willie

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  4. 2@low8

    2@low8 Member

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    Willie - I’m inclined to agree with you. Usually the BATFE follows the letter of the law and I’m thinking that if you remove the DIAS before the FA trigger group you end up with 2 machineguns -- one not registered. So, leave the DIAS in the receiver, remove the FA trigger group and lastly remove the DIAS.

    Now you have a registered machinegun (the DIAS), a stripped lower AR-15 receiver and a FA trigger group. If you put the DIAS away, you now have a stripped lower AR-15 receiver and a FA trigger group in close proximity. If the BATFE walked into the room does this mean that you are showing intent to convert? :eek: :banghead:
     
  5. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Member

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    Willie Sutton wrote:

    You get exactly the same result even with standard semi-auto AR-15 fire control parts, simply by removing the disconnector. Hold the trigger down and the hammer will follow the bolt. This may or may not cause a second (or third) shot, depending on the circumstances that you mention.

    This possibility (uncontrolled automatic fire simply by removing the disconnector) became an issue between the ATF and Colt in the early 1970's. Colt actually pulled the civilian AR-15 off the market for a time, while it redesigned the firing system. When the gun was reintroduced, it had the notched hammer, unshrouded bolt carrier, and smaller-diameter firing pin collar. If you removed the disconnector on such a gun, all you would get would be a hopeless jam.

    Later, it was felt (by all parties) that these modifications weren't necessary, and the shrouded bolt carriers (even, full-auto bolt carriers) and un-notched hammers returned in factory guns.

    Still, you should take the FA hammer, trigger, selector, and disconnector out if you remove the RDIAS. Keep all these parts together as a package, and put semi parts in the gun when it doesn't have the RDIAS.
     
  6. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    "So, leave the DIAS in the receiver, remove the FA trigger group and lastly remove the DIAS"


    Uhh... <sigh>... good luck doing that.... unless you bond it in with JB Weld.. ;-)

    Willie

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  7. MOUNTAIN WILLIAM

    MOUNTAIN WILLIAM Member

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    Your other option would be to run an SWD Auto Connector/Lightning Link, no M16 parts required. However, you'll only have safe or full auto, no semi auto possible with these.
     
  8. 2@low8

    2@low8 Member

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    I was being semi-facetious. I wouldn’t do that in my home, but I would be taking precautions from prying eyes if I was at my club range changing the DIAS from my AR-15 rifle to my AR-15 pistol. I would never want to depend on the “reasonableness” of an investigating government agent/LEO regarding something I believe to be reasonable. We’ve all seen/heard where that can go.

    MOUNTAIN WILLIAM - I have a machine gun with selectable semi, 3 shot burst and full. I could live without the 3 shot burst, but not the semi.
     
  9. MrM4

    MrM4 Member

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    Some guys leave the FA parts in the lower when they pull the DIAS, others Pull the parts and the DIAS at the same time to be safe. Out of all the guys I know with DIAS almost none of them move the DIAS from lower to lower unless its to put it in a lower set up for 9mm. Its more work than its worth when you can just switch uppers.
     
  10. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    "I was being semi-facetious."

    I was being *completely* facetious, thus the smilie... ;)


    It's about impossible to crack open the rifle without the sear falling out, and since it's worth four times what the rifle is worth and is TINY, it comes out and goes into my watch pocket *right away* when cleaning or opening up on the range, leaving beind a (GASP) "unregistered machine gun" when it's in my pocket and my rifle is on the bench. Why me worry? A sear needs a host, and there is always going to be a time when there is a host without a sear, and a sear without a host, laying side by side. I think that reasonableness will prevail.

    Personallly, if I had a 9mm lower and a 5.56mm lower I'd just leave them with the parts installed, and keep the DIAS out and by itself when stored, and not worry about it. Hosts are hosts, the sear is the NFA goodie, and there is every legal reason to posess the hosts in a condition to accept the sear. Then again, I do not expect the BATFE at my house at 03:00 kicking down the door, because I keep my nose VERY clean. The guys who are hassled over every tiny little technical "violation" are the guys with dirty noses against whom the BATFE already has a case built for a pattern of dirt: The chances of being hassled for your hosts sitting next to your registered DIAS approach zero. But... let your concience be your guide. I am sure that a lawyer would advise exactly the opposite "just to be sure".

    The bottom line is that you generally don't need more than one lower set up to accept a DIAS, so why have two? Keep things simple and you'll never go wrong.


    Willie


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  11. MrM4

    MrM4 Member

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    ^^^ +1
     
  12. 2@low8

    2@low8 Member

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    Willie Sutton & MrM4 - I had some functioning problems with the AR-15 pistol that I resolved and I was worried that there might be a problem with swapping out the uppers.

    I'll head out to the backyard and see if one of the lowers will work with both of the uppers. If there are no functioning issues then the single lower is the way to go. Thanks.....Frankie
     
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