Quantcast

PLEASE see this bedding job and weigh in!!

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by blackops, Sep 8, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. blackops

    blackops Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,238
    So I'm recommended this gunsmith to do a bedding job. He's an intelligent man and was less than the other smith's do get a bedding job. So after the job I'm thinking I now know why he's cheaper. He claims the only point of contact worthy of bedding is the front for the recoil lug. I DISAGREE completely with this method. Maybe I'm wrong (let me know if I am), but from my understanding you want a 3D bedding from your tang to the recoil lug to fully get the benefits from a bedded action.

    I want to bed this myself now, so my million dollar question is....do I need to dremel this bedding back down or can I just bed the side walls back to the rear tang and be good?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,076
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    The 'Front' of the recoil lug?
    He didn't seriously tell you that did he??? :eek:

    If you only bed one point, it Has To Be the rear of the recoil lug.
    Where the recoil is transmited into the stock.

    And it's easy to see why he was cheap from your poor photo.
    I use more glass then that to repair a broken flower pot!

    Were I you?
    I would Dremel it all out and start over.

    But don't hire him again to do it!

    rc
     
  3. blackops

    blackops Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,238
    Yes, I meant in the front of the action behind the recoil lug. Regardless, I couldn't believe this guy is really convinced you don't need the entire receiver bedded. I mean REALLY??

    So a dremel can handle the epoxy no problem? Cool.
     
  4. Dave P

    Dave P Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,600
    Location:
    North Florida
    "I use more glass then that to repair a broken flower pot!"

    Roger that!
     
  5. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3,013
    Location:
    virginia
    So do I ....which is why my wife won't let me touch her good china. :evil:
     
  6. natman

    natman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,682
    That would be the rear of the recoil lug then.


    The area he covered is the most important part, but it wouldn't hurt to do the rest as well.
     
  7. BBBBill

    BBBBill Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,275
    Location:
    Alabama and Florida
    Do I see an aluminum bedding block in there? How much contact is there now? Use some inletting black to check.
     
  8. blackops

    blackops Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,238
    Yes there is an aluminum bedding integrated into the stock.

    Guys, if I want a complete bedding should I just seemed back some of the current bedding and then go for it? How much of the stock side walls and rear tang portion of the stock should be milled out? This will be my first bedding job...
     
  9. BBBBill

    BBBBill Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,275
    Location:
    Alabama and Florida
    The intent of an integral aluminum bedding block is to eliminate the need for a separate bedding job. It works successfully to some degree, but is worth checking and improving if it is not up to snuff for the intended purpose (pretty common). Did you shoot it first to see what it was doing? Got movement/poor contact/voids? Maybe is was already well in contact except for the back of the front lug. As I suggested earlier, use some inletting black to find out just what you have before jumping in. Once you know then you can make a good plan to improve it if needed.
     
  10. desidog

    desidog Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,505
    Yeah, i'm confused by the glass and aluminum... is there no aluminum under the front/glassed portion? That's the only reason i could imagine using both systems; but that would make little to no sense in the first place...
     
  11. PotatoJudge

    PotatoJudge Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Texas
    Might be worth shooting it first.
     
  12. blackops

    blackops Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,238
    What is inletting? Some kind of colored die? What is the process to see if you have full contact.

    As far as why bed the rifle if you already have an aluminum block? Do you see bedding down the side walls? In my opinion bedding should be a 3D footprint to eliminate any movement. I understand the recoil lug and rear tang are the main points of contact, but it's nearly impossible to get an aluminum block inlet to fit to your receiver like bedding. I got the aluminum inlet because I didn't have the money to bed after I bought the rifle. It's shooting 1" -1-/4, but it's inconsistent. Too inconsistent for how much reloading I've done and how long I've been shooting the rifle. It should be a 1/2" rifle. Custom load, target crown, bolt face trued, etc...
     
  13. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    17,848
    I will second the idea of at least shooting the rifle first before trying anything else.

    Jim
     
  14. blackops

    blackops Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,238
    I've already shot the rifle as I've mentioned before. It should be or I'm not stopping until I have consistent 1/2" groups.
     
  15. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    11,068
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  16. LAGS

    LAGS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Mesa Arizona
    The Glass Bedding is not going to ADD Acuracy to your rifle.
    If properly bedded it is just eliminating conditions that can "Rob" accuracy from your rifle.
    If the Barrel, Action and Ammo is not capable of that kind of accuracy, then the stock and fitting the stock to the action will not Improve the rifles performance.
    Match ammo, also may not be " Matched " or the most accurate ammo for your rifle.
    Do you hand load, and are you using an ammo that may shoot 1/2" groups out of another rifle, but may not be the Sweet Spot for your rifle .
    You first have to Identify what conditions are causing you Issues.
    What do your Groups LOOK like, and are they very consistant, even though they are not as small of a group as you would like ?
    Does your rifle shoot "three shot" groups better than a five shot group ?
    Does the rifle shoot better Cold, Warmed Up or actually Hot ?
    All these questions can point out what issues you may have.
    Is the barrel Free Floated ?
    Have you tried adding a little Up pressure to your barrel at the nose of the stock ?

    But IMO, I would do a better bedding job than what is shown in the picture to start.
    It may not be Causing your Inaccuracy, But it sure isn't helping .
     
  17. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    11,068
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    +1 What LAGS said. The barrel channel looks like a tapered hunting type barrel. So about 9 lbs up pressure may be needed to make it shoot. Most larger bore hunting guns are only 1 1/2" guns in the real world when you take an average of all shots fired. Wood stock or something else? I cant tell by the photo. I dont like bedding in front of the lug, touching the barrel. Some people bed about 4" in that area to keep heavy barrels from straining the action. Less wood is removed from the forarm as the barrel sits lower in the forarm. .
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
  18. blackops

    blackops Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,238
    Bedding won't make the rifle more accurate just not take anything away from its accuracy? Don't really follow that one??? If it's eliminating factors that would cause inconsistent groups, that's making the rifle more accurate.

    I'm really surprised people don't see a need to bed the side walls. You go to GAP or any premiere custom rifle company in the country you're getting a bedding job from the tang to the recoil lug.

    This is a r700 varmint barrel with b&c medalist stock. Too heavy to hunt with.

    I do greatly appreciate the feedback fellas. Thank you! I'm pretty much set on getting the dremel out, trimming the bedding back, and completing a new bedding job from the tang to the recoil lug.

    243, why should the recoil lug not be touching the sides? Not sure why you wouldn't want the recoil lug to have a 3d bedding to eliminate any kind of movement?
     
  19. LAGS

    LAGS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Mesa Arizona
    @ Blackops
    When I say the rifles accuracy, I am talking about the Barrel, and the action.
    If you bolted the barrel and action to a Test Firing Fixture, and there was NO stock, that will give you the full potential of what the Mechanism is capable of.
    The stock is only something to hold on to, and make it so you can aim the rifle.
    Adding a stock can not , No matter how well fit to the action "MAKE" the Rifle Mechanism shoot any better.
    It can only help you aim the rifle better, or absorbe the recoil better.
    But the Stock, if Mis-Fitting, can cause issues that can disrupt the mechanism's accuracy potential. like Binding the receiver, putting pressure on the barrel where it is Not Needed, or let the barrel or action move around.
    I had a 6mm Remington that could shoot 1/2 groups @200 yards off a sandbag.
    But if you left one action screw a little loose, or added a shim under the barrel the thickness of a business card, the rifle would not group better than 2" @ 100 yards with the same ammo.

    When you said Bedding will make a Rifle More accurate, It is only making the whole rifle more accurate than it was before, and is not Making the rifles Mechanism More accurate.
    So if the action is not square to the barrel, you have a bad barrel, or had a misfitting bolt, or loose or even to tight of chamber.
    All the bedding in the world will not improve those factors.
    But Bedding MIGHT improve the accuracy Some, over the way it was shooting before bedding.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  20. LAGS

    LAGS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    965
    Location:
    Mesa Arizona
    Let me Re- Phrase things and see if it clears things up.

    Bedding, or installing pillars or even Free Floating the barrel will Not " MAKE " a rifle More Accurate.
    They " All " , " WILL Let" your rifle to Be More Accurate, but only if those were causing issues, and your Mechanism and ammo has the accuracy potential to start with.
     
  21. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    11,068
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    The twisting force of the bullet taking the rifling torques the barrel/action. Wood stocks (not yours) change over time. Synthetic stocks may be different. Never worked on a synthetic stock.
     
  22. Rollis R. Karvellis

    Rollis R. Karvellis Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    888
    Location:
    JAX, FLA.
    I, to have jumped in to the stock bedding, and improving game this year also.

    From what I, understand if you are going to skim bed an aluminum bedding block (I, did not do mine) you want it to be the full length.

    But also keep in mind even with all the work you have had done, and it must of cost you a pretty penny, sometimes a rifle just doesn't work.
     
  23. natman

    natman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,682
    I think what he's getting at (in a very roundabout way) is that bedding will only improve accuracy to the degree that the rifle had bedding issues before. Most rifles' accuracy improves somewhat with bedding. Some with really poor bedding improve a lot and a few - a very few - are bedded so well from the factory that they don't improve at all.

    Bedding won't cure inaccuracy caused by a poor barrel, non-concentric parts, only one lug bearing, etc.

    The recoil lug should have one and only one job; to contain the rearward push of the recoil. You don't want the action binding on the lug, you want it to sit entirely on the bottom of the action. You especially don't want to bed under the lug in order to avoid any chance of the action teetering on the bottom of the lug. There's plenty of action / stock interface area to contain up / down and side-to-side movement.
     
  24. Howard Roark

    Howard Roark Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    Deep South
    I usually only bed the front and rear tang areas of magazine fed rifles.

    [​IMG]

    Here is an exception which is my CZ452 that I shoot for SB Silhouette. I pillar bedded the rear action screw and threw away the front barrel screw.

    [​IMG]
    Before

    [​IMG]
    After
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  25. blackops

    blackops Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,238
    Really didn't think I would get so many mixed opinions on this.

    Howard, why not just bed the side walls as well? You bed the entire recoil lug also. I see guys before you don't bed in this fashion. I actually think the entire action should be bedded with no contact to the barrel.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice