Poaching: Who does it, and why?

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Davek1977

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A thread that drifted from the guns most commonly used for poaching drifted into this territory and was closed. I thought a dedicated thread for the discussion was appropriate, and I was reminded of such when I stumbled across this article tonight, which seemed to back the assertion the modern poacher isn't the guy whose down on his luck, doing "what he needs to do" to feed his family, and instead is someone out for thrills.

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...cle_4bb7f44c-b2e7-5608-9373-84821776ec71.html
 
i knew a man who fed his familey during the depression useing wire snares. he told me he looked for deer trails that came close to a large tree in thick brush and would set the snare with a three foot loop on the trail low to the ground held to the hight he wanted with close pins and the main wire around the tree. he set them late in the day and checked them early in the pre dawn hours. he said the deer would kill thenselfs when the noose tightened on their necks as they tried to get away. he did not like to snare in snow as the drag trail may have been seen. after he butchered the deer he would take the left overs and throw them in the river. when things got better he stopped, but he said it was tough times and he had kids to feed and was willing to do what it took to feed his familey. eastbank.
 
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Thrills, money or food seem to be the primary motivators.
 
You have different reasons for the different "types" of poaching...

You Have:
Poachers who take game out-of-season
Poachers who trespass to take game
Poachers who exceed personal bag limits
Poachers who take game with illegal means
Poachers who hunt when prohibited, or poach to "get even"
Poachers who take a trophy animal by one or more of the above violations

In some cases it may be the "thrill" of the violation... they may see themselves as "rebels".

Also, it may also be selfishness in some cases.

They take game out-of-season because they somehow reason they were slighted in not being able to hunt when the season was open....so, "It's not their fault... and it's not really poaching as they're following the rest of the laws".

They trespass to hunt on posted land that they once could hunt upon, but the ownership has changed or the landowner has changed their mind, and they reason they somehow have a "right" to continue, or they trespass on posted land adjacent to where they may legally hunt because they reason "that landowner is greedy by posting that land, and all the deer hide over there."

They exceed bag limits, such as taking 18 dove when the limit is 12, as they reason "lots of people do it".

Some refuse change, so (for example) with the encroachment of dwellings near where they hunt with a rifle, they continue though the new law says "shotgun or muzzleloader only"...and reason "I've always used my rifle so I have a right to continue", or they reason, "that law is stupid, so I can ignore it".

They hunt after being caught and license confiscated as they resent being caught while reasoning that, "other people do the same violation and nobody catches them, so it's unfair and I'm going to keep hunting". A variation of this is the fellow cited for a violation of which he's sure he was innocent, but the judge agrees with the DNR officer, so now that person is going to commit several violations to "get even". (Yet if the same person got a red light ticket, which was bogus, and the judge found him guilty, he wouldn't start running red lights willy nilly to "get even".)

Finally there are some who reason they've "earned" that trophy regardless if the season closed or they filled their tags with lesser specimens...., "I've been trying to get that [insert large number] point buck all year long, and didn't get him. Now I see him so I will go ahead and take him. That's MY buck".



LD
 
May reasons people poach. Two big ones are trophy hunters and money-poor people feeding themselves/family. Growing up in a <300 person small Idaho town up in the mountains I have seen both, a lot. The guys killing just for the rack will get turned in every time. The other, well, I didn't see a darn thing.
 
I know two families that take deer and most other game they can find year round. They feed their families almost exclusively on wild game and the food they produce on their place. That is poaching and it is illegal in Alabama but I am actually okay with it. If anyone shoots a deer they don't want on our land then we give it to these guys. They are good people but totally uneducated and still living in the past. They don't go out riding the roads and shooting trophies, they kill for the meat.
We have people arrested every year that decide they can hunt on our property just because it's there.
I think that group number 2 outnumbers group number one 1000x.
 
I believe that true poaching has it roots in the hunter gatherer needing to feed his family. Heavily hunted open land became difficult to hunt so they migrated to private property where animals were under less pressure and sometimes under a loose wildlife management program for the gentry.

Certainly this side of the pond you have different kinds of poaching.

- Subsistence poaching by the impoverished for sustenance. This would be just about anything from rats to big stuff.
- Hunter poaching, by those who wish not to pay the price to hunt on a lodge and to pay for the animal. They use the carcass personally.
- Syndicated Poaching. This is where the Ivory and Rhino Horn is the target.
- Exotic species poaching. Where rare and desirable animals are caught and sold the intermediaries for the black market trade.

Not heard of the thrill poacher.
 
Again, as I pointed out in the other thread, the "I can't feed my family" excuse hardly flies when unemployment is less than 3% in the area. If you can sneak into the woods and night to jacklight Bambi, you can also get your a$$ up at the crack of dawn for your job at Burger King. Not wanting to work the jobs available in a area is NOT the same thing as not being ABLE to get a job. Very few people I knw that have taken part in poaching in one way or another had no other option. Some may not have LIKED their options, but they had options nonetheless. I see far too many "help wanted" signs around town to believe that poaching is the only way some people can put food on their plate. Hell, we have Sportsmen Against Hunger in this state, where hunters can donate unwanted vension to the needy. Going to the food bank might not be as much fun as killing it yourself, but if one is legal and one isn't, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the proper route to take. Even if you just HAVE to have wild game....you can get it...(here at least) WITHOUT POACHING IT
 
I know a guy who poached just about every deer he had killed until about four years ago. He was driving down a gravel road, not actually looking to kill anything, when he realized he forgot something at home so he turned around in a field. There just so happened to be a Game Warden parked in the edge of said field a few hundred yards away watching for poachers, so he stopped the guy. Upon inspection he had 3 guns in his truck and was charged with molesting wildlife and they got a search warrant for his house. When they searched it they found a bobcat, turkey, and a deer untagged in the freezer he hadn't took to the taxidermist. Cost him a few grand and lost his hunting rights for three years and lost one of the guns. He hasn't poached anything but eggs since then.:)
 
Game laws exist for the good of us all. Seasons and bag limits are recommended/determined by biologist. They do their best to establish regulations that balance the desires of hunters and the good of wild creatures. A poacher disregards that. He selfishly puts what he wants at odds with anything else.

I would poach if I had to because I was starving, but such is never the case. A poacher is a thief, taking what is not his to take. Too many people view game and fish laws as non-moral issues.

What if there were no poaching laws? Hunting would become extinct. A society without enforced regulations is doomed.
 
Game laws exist for the good of us all. Seasons and bag limits are recommended/determined by biologist. They do their best to establish regulations that balance the desires of hunters and the good of wild creatures. A poacher disregards that. He selfishly puts what he wants at odds with anything else.
I would poach if I had to because I was starving, but such is never the case. A poacher is a thief, taking what is not his to take. Too many people view game and fish laws as non-moral issues.

What if there were no poaching laws? Hunting would become extinct. A society without enforced regulations is doomed.
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This is pretty much what the kings of England thought. All laws are "for the good of us all".
Never say never. There are people that poach to feed their families. They are certainly in the minority but they do exist.
 
They trespass to hunt on posted land that they once could hunt upon, but the ownership has changed or the landowner has changed their mind, and they reason they somehow have a "right" to continue, ...
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I've run into that more than once. One time had a guy take my stand, move it a few hundred yds and hunt out of it. His defense was 'I've been hunting here since I was ....'
 
If you can sneak into the woods and night to jacklight Bambi, you can also get your a$$ up at the crack of dawn for your job at Burger King. Not wanting to work the jobs available in a area is NOT the same thing as not being ABLE to get a job.
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I do not poach, and I've had some kind of job since I was 13 years old, so I kind of know what you're saying. BUT, in the small town that I live in, it took my wife almost 6 years to get a steady job. She waitressed at a diner until it shut down its business 2 months later, then the same thing happened at a daycare she worked at after around 5 months. There is no burger king or mcdonalds here, and the small business's that actually stayed open were never looking to hire.

When you live in a tiny town, there aren't nearly as many job opportunities to be had unless you have the patience to wait on them and money to tide you over until one opens up, even crappy jobs. If it wasn't for me already having a job, we would have went hungry. I would have found a way to feed us somehow, even if it was poaching.
 
they poach because they arent really stopped.

when you read the state dnr news magazines, like in michigan, and you see an arrest description in which the same subject was caught for the 5th time in 6 years for having deer in the trunk but never having a kill tag, well you get a tad tired.

most poaching seems to be in the following

"got bored, so shot the first thing that turned out to be illegal for that particular hunt"

"illegal hours, or wrong hunt, but finally saw a buck in 3 years so shot it"
 
Kurt Darner represents the worst kind.
Me personally, I'd shun any government handouts if I was without work and means to provide other than what the land had to offer. For the most part I've lived and provided for the majority of my family's protein using licenses purchased from the state but I would not hesitate to do the same without the fees if needed.
 
I have seen a bunch of unethical hunting and poaching, and a lot of unethical hunting is reasonably a greater infraction than poaching even though the law makes it legal. Since Kentucky has no wanyon waste law, the guy who shoots a 6 point and leaves all but the antlers i despise and can do nothing about. The guy who has 8 kids and is supporting his elderly inlaws taking his wife to buy tags that he then uses, I don't do much take issue with. Guys who shoot their limit of ducks, dove, rabbits etc clean them and go out again the same day to the same spot, I do take issue with, but the guy who accidentally gets a double on his last shot taking 16 rather than 15 I take no issue with.

Today the vast majority of hunters hunt for an experience, a trophy, and a story. Sadly hunting has gotten to be a big money event and people pay thousands of dollars for that package. If they shoot a 120 inch deer thinking he's bigger then chose to overlimit and take another "like what they paid for" then that's poaching because they paid for it. Since so much money goes into leases and such the guy who loses his hunting spot and can't pay huge sums to hunt his stand (literally) trespasses and does it anyway for spite. Sometimes it's the guy who is down on his luck who can't pay to hunt who truly needs the meat. Sometimes it's a jealous guy slipping over a fence to get a chance at some ducks on a pond because his buddies paid and got a gajillion ducks out of state. Like all things, when money gets to be more than an insignificant factor, it gets ugly, and I feel like that has a lot to do with hunting now, poaching when it's not on the up and up.

So what about the hard hit deer that didn't fall in eyesight? Is it a tag in reserve or is it the one that got away?
 
"Handouts" are earned not given. One must try NOT to get a job. The underemployed really get hammered. Some folks don't know and will never know what's its like to be destitute and desperate, and thank God almighty.

If it wasn't for wild fish and game.....
 
this is a very sensative subject here.obviously. but one thing that has not been examined, is poaching used for deer manegment.

for instance you have several hundred acres and buck doe ratios are unhealthy.
i know everyone thinks if you have several hundred acres you are very wealthy. thats not always the case. in my area you can actually own a lot of land and still be poverty stricken.

you need meat for food and want to keep your deer pop healthy. one or two hunters in the family.

a family of four will eat 4 to 6 deer a year if it is their only source of protein. thats a given.now im talking normal 100 to 150 lb deer.

something nobody knows is that the dnr does not know how to regulate deer on your particular property.your property may be run over with deer because of good habitat. your neighbors property 5 miles away may have none.

its a good chance you are better husband to your property than the dnr. for the reason that you know it and have been there for years.

you observe your land and your populations and know whats good for it.

if you shoot a couple extra does or bucks with messed up racks, is that poaching? if said landowner eats every scrap?

poaching does not always occur at nite or on other peoples land.
 
There are several motivations. Many, maybe most don't wake up one morning and just decide to take game illegally. They just take advantage of opportunities that fall into their lap. The guy driving home from an unsuccessful hunt that sees a giant buck at the edge of a field shortly after dark and can't resist the temptation. Taking 1 duck over the limit just because there is an opportunity etc.

Money is a big motivation for many. Big buck contests or the product endorsements from taking a new record book animal. Unethical guides that will take hunters into areas they aren't supposed to be to collect a big pay check.
 
I have a challenge for THR members. My proposal is that you forbid yourself from purchasing any meat or meat product for the next six months.

If you accept the challenge you must forbid yourself from purchasing any meat, meat products, or meals with meat in them.

1) You cannot encourage or ask your wife, your girlfriend, your child or any relation to purchase meat for you as a proxy.

2) You must pretend that the supermarket, convenience store and restaurant of any kind do not sell or serve meat. Meat, for you, is simply not available to buy.

3) You can eat meat if some person gives you meat.

4)You can eat meat if you beg for meat, begging is O.K.

5) You can eat meat that you steal.

6) You can eat meat that you take. (Stray cats for example.)

7) You can eat meat that you poach.

8) You can eat all the beans, broccoli, rice and apples you want. No purchased meat.

9) The meat currently in your freezer is off limits too, that would be cheating.


I believe THR members who accept this challenge will have a clear understanding of why many people in the world (aside from those who do it as a business) poach.
 
I have a family member that has hunted out of season and takes more pheasant than he is allowed in a day. But he also hunts and fishes for almost every meal. I'm fine with it. I firmly believe that of you use the animals you take and don't get greedy, it's OK. I hunt on my neighbors property and I have the same deer come through mine. I take only one a year because I enjoy them and respect them. Oftentimes I only need to take one after hunting state land.

I don't like anybody who kills and doesn't use their game. I'm OK with trophy hunting and I've shot a nice buck or two. But I'd much rather take a medium doe and get quality meat than a nice shoulder mount.
 
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